Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<D'oh! chicken, you messed up the number 57 post for the Inspector!>> I am honestly sorry about that. My computer is weird and slow tonight and I didn't even see that it would work out that way. I always screw up everyone's threads.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy She meant as in if you just go along with what people think of you and don't try to prove yourself to them or prove them wrong, but just "go with the flow"...I think. It makes sense in the scene, lol.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling I think I get the point. It is one thing (often the wrong thing) to *go with the flow*, but it is another thing to rise above the flow altogether. Sometimes that distinction is lost on people and it can be a shame. Things don't always come out like you think they will and in my life I have never felt better about myself after pointing out someone else's faults. Accurate as I may be about them. Sometimes you have to just let it go. There are only two doors here from where I sit: she's changed and it will hurt her or she hasn't and she won't care (other than to be vindictive).
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<I ain't *that* upset none!>> Boy, you're letting that southern drawl come right on out aren't ya? Very cute.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 In high school, I was the butt of a lot of kids' bullying. I was pretty miserable until senior year, in which I somehow gained a bit of self-confidence. Either that, or the elation that the whole thing would be over soon carried me through. Five years later, the reunion of our 65-person class was held in the middle of a muddy field. It was a blow-out kegger, very upbeat. But whenever I came into the proximity of any of the guys who had treated me like dirt in school, things got a little less festive. I soon discovered that the best opening line was some variation on, "So you didn't like me very much in high school." They'd stammer, I'd tell them that it upset me but that I was over it, I'd ask what they were doing now, they'd tell me, we'd get more beer, they'd apologize, I'd say it was okay, we'd yuk it up. By the end of the evening, there were no vestiges of the high school cliques. If I hadn't been direct about the tension we'd had, the evening would have consisted of me floating around the edges of groups I'd avoided. ----- A few years ago, my core group of friends at home planned a joint trip to Vegas. One of the friends, who we all knew to be a bit of a braggart and all kind of rolled our eyes at but still loved for who he is, announced that he was going to use his connections to get us cheap parking and -- ta da! -- upgrades on the flight. Whoa! Cool! Turns out that he discovered early on that he could deliver, but he didn't have the, uh, let's use "nerve" to tell us that until we were pulling into the airport. There was major disappointment among the other seven of us as we checked in. And lots of bitching about it behind his back during the trip. We still had a good time, but... People resented it. He didn't get it. It didn't ruin my trip. We had a GREAT time together, and I loved his company. Still, it was in the back of my mind. We took a red-eye home. As soon as we got in, I called and asked if I could come over. Then, with no sleep and without warning, I told him how inconsiderate he'd been and how diappointed he'd made everyone and how we all would have loved him just as much and appreciated the try if he'd just have told us as soon as he knew that it wouldn't work. It was an ugly and uncomfortable conversation to have. But it was absolutely the right thing to do. He learned from it. I shared what I had done with the other members of the group and it disappated tension. He and I have a closer, more honest relationship because of it. ----- I advise students. I have a steady stream of students in my office. My fear is that I'll have a repeat visitor who I won't recognize. When they come in, I try to respond to each of them individually, to share with them what I think will be helpful. But what I say mostly ends up feeling rote to me. Ever so often, a student will make an effort to come back and tell me that I made a difference for them. Something that I thought was a throw-away line stuck with them. Or they appreciated that I went a little bit out of my way, made a phone call on their behalf, maybe, and it made all the diffference for them. Wow. Nothing else in my job feels that good. They didn't have to make a point of telling me that. And if they didn't, I don't think I'd ever know what effect I had in my position. I can't honestly say that I've ever had a student come back and say, "You really messed me up." But if I had, I would want to hear it. It would make me defensive initially, and it would ultimately cause me pain. But I would definitely value that feedback. ----- Right now I am in the middle of an email conversation with a dear LP friend with whom I have a disagreement on a sensitive topic. We *could* just pretend that our difference doesn't exist. But it feels so much better to talk it out. We will probably end up agreeing to disagree. That's totally cool. Having this disagreement as something that's unspoken and festering would not be cool. ----- I'm not envisioning Jim's email to his former boss as a "You slimed me and now you must die" kind of thing. I see it as a statement of fact. "This is what you did. This is the effect it had on me. This is where I am now. I wanted you to know this." I don't agree with the "she's a (w)itch or she's not, and either way the letter won't make a difference" thinking. She's a person. She'll react to the feedback. If she's changed, she'll feel rewarded about changing. She may also feel guilty. It's on her to deal with that. If she hasn't changed, she'll either learn from the feedback or she'll have some defensive emotional response. I just don't see any reason not to provide the feedback. I don't think Jim has an obligation to do it. But I don't understand people's aversion to providing it.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Oops. Obviously, "he discovered early on that he could NOT deliver"
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <"This is what you did. This is the effect it had on me. This is where I am now. I wanted you to know this."> Just so long as she's not the egotistical type to think that Jim's where he is *because* she treated him like hell...as long as he lets her know that she's not the biggest factor "responsible" for his success, that'd be good.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling I'm not here to take anybody on. I have lots of respect for all regular posters here. Especially you Inspector. I think you are thoughtful, mature, professional and a class act overall. Clearly, as your posts shows you are a direct person who would always prefer to talk things which I also admire and personally adhere to as much as circumstances allow or require. On this point though I disagree. Which I know you will be fine with. I know Jim will value all the input. I know we will all be interested in his final decision should he decide to share it with us.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<I keep getting post 69 lately...>> LOL! You are so getting admin'd.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<prefer to talk things>> Ooops. Me talk pretty one day. Of course I meant "prefer to talk things out"
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<On this point though I disagree. Which I know you will be fine with.>> You're so right! I'm sorry if I seemed confrontational. I actually struggled with the "she's changed or she hasn't, so either way the feedback won't change anything" logic. I'm counting on the possiblity of some gray area, I guess. <<Me talk pretty one day.>> Okay, now you're just trying to win me over with a reference to David Sedaris. It totally works! Seriously, chickendumpling, thank you very much for the very nice compliment, and thank you for stating that you disagree. This is a great example of assertive communication: people disagree, and they don't have to make character arguments or try to "win." Thanks again!
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy The Inspector has a strong bold streak of Hermes in him among the Greek god personality types---he is very much an open communicator.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling No, thank you, Inspector. Again, nothin' but class. You do know Me Talk Pretty One Day is one of my all time favorite books, don't you? <---hopelessly incapable of staying on topic.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy Then my work here is done. Now, my work here at work, that's another matter, lol...
