Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<What did you get, $300? Big deal. That buys a nice meal or two in a restaurant. In the meantime, the middle class is hit by every sort of dodge you can imagine. Deductions being capped, credits going away, etc. That $300 costs me thousands.>> I got back thousands more in taxes and went to DL twice on my refund. I also have not loast any deductions or credits. YOu might need to get a better accountant Jon. Why is this so hard? You let people keep more of the monet THEY EARNED and they in turn take that money and they buy stuff which helps the ecomony. Businesses take the profits THEY EARNED and they plow it back into their business or start new businsess that create more jobs. These companies also stay in America instead of running to India or Mexico. All those extra jobs and consumer spending result in HIGHER tax revenue for local, state, and federal governemnts. Just check the latest tax revenue news if you want to see this being a fact. Florida and Nevada have some super low taxes and guess what?? Their economy is on fire. NY, CAlif. Oregon, Washington, blue states where liberals and their high taxes are in place have higher unemployment, less jobs , more misery. You would think that college educated people with fancy degrees could figure this little bit of common sense out but they can't.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Question.. how are the democrats going to create more jobs, help the economy and keep jobs here at home? < This however is a fair question that never seems to get answered because it is Beau asking it and it is easy to lose it in some of the other rhetoric that usually surrounds it. However itis something people likeme do want to know. I don;t care how they are going to defeat the eveil empire as they see it, I want to know what the heck they are going to do to fix it. I too am still waiting to see those plans and we are just a little over 2 years away.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <What did you get, $300? Big deal. That buys a nice meal or two in a restaurant. In the meantime, the middle class is hit by every sort of dodge you can imagine. Deductions being capped, credits going away, etc. That $300 costs me thousands. < perfect example-- why is it I cannot claim the child tax deduction now that it is capped income wise-- so I lose $2000 off the bottom of my taxes because of that-- yet you never see this in the GOP explanation of it ? By $100K of combined income most of this is gone, and by $150K it is completely gone. What again is that definition of middle class wages for a 2 income family ? Also after $100K you lose portions of education rebates etc, as well as portions of your itemized deducations. I m not crying poor, but I am saying the way the tax breaks are being portayed is bull. So the family making $125K for two earners gets the same breaks on those as those making $10 million / year -- tellme again how that is fair and how much money it put in my pocket ?
Originally Posted By jonvn "if you go back and re read as I suggest and see I am not bashing Clinton in 50 or the post before that" Perhaps you are not. The thing is that there is SO MUCH of what I'm talking about with regards to blaming Clinton for things, that maybe I mistook what you had to say. Sorry if that is the case. "they are all lucky there is not a viable 3rd party in this country and both sides of the aisle want to keep it that way as I truly believe there are a whole heck of a lot of people just like me out there." They have it set up so there can't be. If Teddy Roosevelt couldn't do it, no one will be able to. The problem is right now that everyone is polarized. You've got people running around screaming about LIBERALS doing this or that, and really, it's ridiculous. Complaining about other people does not produce a solution to a problem. I don't think you are that alone. I'm pretty much in the same camp as you. I bash Bush a bit, because I think he's taken a lot of things that I stand for, twisted them on their head, and really made a mess of just about everything he's touched. It's extremely frustrating to see someone fail so badly, when we need someone to do an excellent job.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << because i can hire an MBA in Brazil for $400 /month to do a job that would pay $60K+ here -- and if they ar enot as good, I'll hire 2. Who cares as long as profits increase. >> That might happen in certain cases but this is not going to be the norm. Can you blame a business for doing what it needs to be profitable? A company doens't owe it's employees anything. If the employee can produce they will get paid for what they bring to the table. You just need to make sure you are better than Shrinivas the dude from India. YOu also say compaines have their HQ in states where taxes are low. Here it is... <<Most companies have their HQ in limited tax states and in areas whee they get significant tax breaks...>> Yet you then go on to say that taxes play a small role in a companies decision process. Here is what you said.. <<um no -- these are taxes that are in place now... and if really believe that taxes are the cause for jobs leaving then you are very naive as to what's going on in corporate america.>> Tax breaks are what cause a company to either stay or leave an area. You want to put higher taxes on a company like the democrats are promising to do, get ready for those companies to leave the state or the country. THEN people can cry about no jobs.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I also have not loast any deductions or credits. YOu might need to get a better accountant Jon.< see the child tax credit and education credits I list -- as well as the hit 'everyone ' takes after your itemized deducation reach a % of your total income. I want an accountant that won't landme in jail also. There is no legal way of not losing those.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <That might happen in certain cases but this is not going to be the norm. Can you blame a business for doing what it needs to be profitable?< ask me that question when your job goes to Thailand ... And yes I can-- the companies that are doing this are recording record high profits.... and are cutting off their noses to spite their faces as they are un empowering the clientele that buys their goods...so yes I can.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Perhaps you are not. The thing is that there is SO MUCH of what I'm talking about with regards to blaming Clinton for things, that maybe I mistook what you had to say. Sorry if that is the case. < thank you , that's all I wanted to clear up-- I would like W/E to become more of a place to share ideas and thought I think most of us have in common -- I realize the rhetoric here has been off the edge for years now ( which is why I took a 6 month break from W/E) --
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<The problem is right now that everyone is polarized. You've got people running around screaming about LIBERALS doing this or that, and really, it's ridiculous. Complaining about other people does not produce a solution to a problem.>> What are the liberals going to do to create more jobs and improve the economy again??? People need to really think about this because the truth is, the dems will raise taxes to promote the social programs they find so important and they will stick it to companies that are actually making some money these days. That will result in layoffs and a stop in spending by consumers. Reagan had it right, Carter had it wrong. All you have to do is look at history to see what works and what doesn't work. I slam liberals non stop because even though history PROVES they ar pushiing failed ideas they push them anyway. A lot of them even went to college and have 5 masters degrees! Just kidding....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <The problem is right now that everyone is polarized. You've got people running around screaming about LIBERALS doing this or that, and really, it's ridiculous. Complaining about other people does not produce a solution to a problem. < and also people running around screaming NEOCON to anyone who might have voted GOP last time...let's not forget this is a 2 way street -- but I hear what you are saying
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<see the child tax credit and education credits I list -- as well as the hit 'everyone ' takes after your itemized deducation reach a % of your total income. I want an accountant that won't landme in jail also. There is no legal way of not losing those>> You might be right about this. I have an accountant that is awesome however. He has been around for 25 years, costs 4 times as much as HR block and has made me thousands in returns. A good accountant is worth his weight in gold. That is something you can teach your kids without sending them to college.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy vbdad, I think you know your stuff by the way. Did something happen to you personally that caused you to have your current view on jobs and the economy? I sense something in your life that must have hit close to home.
Originally Posted By jonvn "There is no legal way of not losing those." That's right. Anyone who actually does make this sort of money knows PRECISELY what is going on with the tax situation.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Tax breaks are what cause a company to either stay or leave an area. You want to put higher taxes on a company like the democrats are promising to do, get ready for those companies to leave the state or the country. THEN people can cry about no jobs.< stay or leave an area within the US...geez-- taxes play little to no part in off-shoring discussions,it is wages/pensions/benefits period. When you actually have some experience in that area- or get info from someone who does- then try and school me on this. I work nationally and internationally on this very subject and have almost 10 years of hands on experience with it at a corporate level...so with so many sattes/cities unincorporated areas willing to create low tax zones ( by various names) that is not why jobs are leaving the states. Areas in other countries offer US companies 'rebates' on salaries for jobs moved there...significant ones...so that is why the jobs go there( and these are not countriesone would consider in the arena of low cost countries) -- they are literally buying some of our jobs.. We recently had some oil companies record the highest profits in their history..and are they off shoring jobs also - you bet... You have to realize ( although I know I am just a dumb ### with fancy degrees and don;t udnerstand the working class) - the days is coming when you, Joe Salesman ( sales manager or whatever - are going to have no one here to sell to , then no matter how good you are your job will be obsolete, if we keep off shoring our future) - Take a close look at the major corporations outside of Oil..and look at the fortune 25 -- you will see revenue is declining for them, the reason profits are going up is because they are cutting costs only...costs translate to people these days as few of those companies have any major real estate holdings - HQ's any more - they sold most of them off already)-
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <A lot of them even went to college and have 5 masters degrees! Just kidding.... < and you wonder why people think your a ......fill in anything you want. Just a smug comment that detracts from anything else you say in your posts -- eventhose who want to hear what you say can;t get past this attitude...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^ because from your arguments the past few days you are not kidding.....you have comtempt for anyone that happens to be highly educated because in your world we were educated by liberal fanatics somewhere...it is really a sad view of American education
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <vbdad, I think you know your stuff by the way. Did something happen to you personally that caused you to have your current view on jobs and the economy? I sense something in your life that must have hit close to home.< yes I feel very bad for the many people who are becoming the 'victims' of companies not even trying to raise revenue any more but just worried about cutting costs to increase profits. I know many people in these ranks as I live in I guess what most would call an affluent area where there are many execs and former execs. So when I read the companies owe these people nothing after 25 - 35 years of 70 hour weeks...I get a little miffed. Some are out of work for gong on years now because of their age ( can hire a 30 year old MBA to replace them, and even though there is a significant drop off in production/experience etc - it doesn;t matter because the bottom line is profit). Even customer satisfaction which was always a staple of how these companies do business, matters little any more. They gauge how much 'pain' customers will live with before they leave....this is going on every day by everyone you are doing business with. many of these people are parents of my kids friends..and trust me the bunk about always having someone willing to hire you if you are an excellent worker with excellent skills is just that - bunk. While probably true when you are 25 or 30....try if after 50 or 55. No one wants you because the 35% or more hit they take over and above your salary for health benefits is prohibitive for them..yet these people have kids at home without medical coverage once COBRA runs out. And try paying that $1200 / month cobra when you are unemployed. Uninsured kids is not only a poor issue.. This is a serious crisis that I am very close to, and while it hasn't affect me or my family directly ( yet ) - the chances are every white collar worker in America that works for an even semi major corporation will be affected in the next 5 or so years. Small businesses can't afford to off shore these workers because the communication links and logistics make it impractical financially..but anyone on the Fortune 500 can... and will. So yes, things have happened around me I no longer choose to ignore. So whether it is having your taxes done in India, your x-ray tech reading your charts in Bangalore or Southeast Asia, your customer service call being answered in Ireland or Spain, or your banking questions being handled in Canada..it is a problem. You have to realize we are a service economy now-- we donot have the manufaturing prowess we once had to fall back on. Other countries now make as many cars here as we do.....what happens if GM and Ford really tank ( and they are not as far away as some think) - and Toyota no longer feels the PR need to build any of their cars here ? Answer is they will move those plants to Korea and Southeast Asia...and make more profits on the cars because they will be the only game in town. If you choose to ignore all of this and rest on the hot hot hot economy that the administration is convincing you we are in....you will have a rude awakening in 5 -10 years. I would like my kids to be able to have a career here.. As a flag waving American ( and I have no problem with that) - you of all people should look into what is behind the profits being made right now by many American companies-- you will see it's not because those companies are growing, it's cost cutting..and eventually you reach the point where there are no more costs to cut. This is not a one company phenomenon...this is across the board. so if you really believe I know my stuff ( and I believe in this area I do ) - please go and research Share Services and review the model being followed. If it doesn't frighten you I would be surprised. The last step of the SS model ( and some companies are already there) is to sell of the off shore piece of the business and buy back their services. So today people BS and say that " well those jobs still belong to us, we are just becoming a global ecomony" is bunk...the last step is you sell of those employees and buy their services back from them...they are no longer part of the companies bottom line, nor their workforce. how do you feel about H&R Blocks' significant workforce in India having access to your credit history / social security numbers and financial history, in a country where tight regulations mean little ? the CPA equivalents in India make $250- $300 /month vs $3000 to $4000 /month here. Think it is still tax reasons jobs are being off shored ? no. And India is gradating 50,000 college educated accountants per year to take over the rest of the positions. The corporate line is there are needed to replace the retiring boomers here, reality is it is to force the boomers 50+ here to retire so they can save $40K per year plus benefits per job. What does that say for your kids who want to be accounts ( regardless of who trains them) ? Well you tell me, you are the hiring manager for PW - adn you can hire a college grad from Penn State for $35,000 a year or an MBA in India for $4000 / year...what do you do <a href="http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our_firm/our_culture/corporate_citizenship/gmi/docs/rocky_road.pdf" target="_blank">http://www2.goldmansachs.com/o ur_firm/our_culture/corporate_citizenship/gmi/docs/rocky_road.pdf</a> <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2004-02-23-overseas-outsourcing_x.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/money/ perfi/taxes/2004-02-23-overseas-outsourcing_x.htm</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I recommend this book above others and there is zero political slant, it is a financial view. Essentials of Shared Services (Paperback) by Bryan Bergeron "In the current global economic environment, which is characterized by downsizing, mergers, acquisitions, and uncertainty, managers are grasping for ways to simultaneously improve the bottom line........ and view any one of a number of articles on major corporations: there are orgs that many belong to in order to share info on where they are in the process- also these orgs put out blurbs for companies about how hey need't be concerned about job losses because the people were going to retire anyway...well it is not only the US concerned about this -- read articles from Scotland / UK / germany etc..anywehre where jobs can be sent from at significant savings.. they protect this process like the unions used to protect their workers.. that alone should alarm you. <a href="http://www.sharedservicesbpo.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sharedservicesbpo.c om/</a> <a href="http://www.ssbenchmarking.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ssbenchmarking.org/</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 btw -- I do not know what the solutions are either. If I did I would post them. Isolationalism will not work either, but either will making your own countries workforce obsolete...I am looking for financial and economic minds surely greater than mine to find a solution -- my concern if that both parties are ignoring that is is happening..so no one is working on it. And whatever president that is in power when the balance is finally tipped will be blamed. We have now gone throufh 2 presidents who have ignored ( Clinton & Bush ) - and you sure don't see this coming up much in discussions unless the comment is prepared by one of the Shared Services Org's. The media which has a way of digging everything out -- hits this once in a while -- but then lets it go. it flies under the radar as no one more thousands of jobs at a time -- it is a trickle out business..
Originally Posted By Shooba It's nice to see that people are able to see the big picture and think about how others are affected by the economy. You know, as opposed to "I can afford to go to Disneyland and my neighbours can afford to go to Disneyland, therefore everything is fine and anyone who isn't fine is just lazy".
