Originally Posted By RoadTrip I still think a McCain/Clinton Independent Party run for the roses would ROCK. But maybe that's just me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I just don't see a chance of an independent party actually winning in 2008 are a reality. Both parties and their 'machines' ( Chicago pol term )- would work very hard against the gig they have now. Voting issues with having to declare for primaries.. straight ticket voters..etc. Actually McCain/Lieberman would be closer to my preference..
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder There's a story in today's LA Times (I didn't link because you have to register) that says Lieberman's "Bush Baggage" is hurting his chances in Connecticut.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It's a shame because I think the man is solid- thanks for the heads up though as I will check out the article
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Although Mr. Lieberman has attracted support from several of his Senate colleagues — and former President Bill Clinton appeared with him in the state last week — only a handful have pledged to remain loyal to him if he loses to his antiwar challenger, Ned Lamont, and mounts an independent campaign. Furthermore, some forces within the party, including Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, will be willing to campaign actively for Mr. Lamont if he is pitted against Mr. Lieberman in the general election, many Democratic officials said. << here is one reason why the Dem's need to get a consistent plan - if Lieberman loses the primary to his anti war opponent - and runs as an independent as he has already said he will - then good chance they lose that seat to a Republican who only garners say 39% of the vote -- the far left having too much to say there and the end result may be defeat for a seat he wins with his eyes closed in a straight election against the GOP candidate. Not too hard to figure out - but if they want either house back the planning has got to be better than that
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Another reason? Right now it is popular to be pissed at Israel. I mean we support their right to exist if they don't actually have to KILL anyone. But other than that, Hezbollah’s missiles really haven’t done much damage anyway, so what's the deal? So why the heck would we put a Jew in office? Sounds like nothing but trouble to me.
Originally Posted By ecdc "That is the reason I keep responding. I persist in my hope that there is something more to Beaumandy than meets the eye." Obi-wan once thought as you do. It is too late for him, he's more Rush now than man. He must obey his Master Bush.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy << I firmly believe Beau that one day in the near future ( within 5 years ) you will see how the facts I have put out there ( and thank you for finally crediting me with being factual and applying real world experience) - will severely impact your sales role also.>> Maybe, but I am not worried. I have heard people say the economy was going to collapse for years. Remember the dotcom bust in 2000? That seemed like the end of the world and I got hit hard. But if you have solid job skills you can always make money in America... always. Maybe when I am 50 I will see it different, but up to this point I have never had a problem getting a job. If I lost my job today I could get 5 jobs making the same money if not more in the next month. I'm just telling you how I see it.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<There's a story in today's LA Times (I didn't link because you have to register) that says Lieberman's "Bush Baggage" is hurting his chances in Connecticut.>> People still read the LA Times? Anyway, Liebermans big crime according to today's leftist democrat is that he doesn't hate Bush enough and he has the nerve to want us to win the war in Iraq. Yep, he is a total disgrace to the moonbat left who will find it impossible to ever win with such a shallow attitude. It's amazing these people can't see themselves about to once again go over the cliff. America will see that democrats are willing to kick a good man like Lieberman to the curb simply because he won't insist we lose the war or that Bush isn't the real enemy. It's why they are going to lose.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Maybe when I am 50 I will see it different< trust me - you will....the world was different for me before then also <<But if you have solid job skills you can always make money in America..<< a salesman needs a public that eitherr has disposable cash - or if selling to business, a business that is buying for the needs of it's employees here in the US. What I am telling you is that landscape is changing...and quickly. You can choose to ignore it, or do some more research and I have given you all the buzz words to research...talk to business owners...listen to what many other members of your party are also saying... and be prepared. during the 1930's plenty of great skilled salesman were in breadlines because no one had the money to purchase from them.would you not agree ? ..history has a way of repeating itself and if big business doesn't reverse some of the trends I have talked about.. it could be sooner than you think. example - let say a majot intn'l co.-- let's call them company A for the sake of me not ratting them out used to have 3000 employees in this one city not 6 years ago. Today they have 260 and the rest of the jobs did not cease to be needed.. they just moved off shore. The rep for Staples / Boise lost 85% of his selling power, as did the food service rep for the cafeteria, as did the rep for AT&T etc etc... the cabbies lost these people as customers for fares, the delis and restaurants around the major centers where they worked also lost their clientele..Many of these people did NOT find similar employment as they were at least 40+ - some older so they stopped taking vacations, buying cars, buying items for their kids etc...the trickle down is not hard to follow. Look at any small city where the major employer closes up shop and heads out... the upper Midwest has plenty of these towns...the business practices today are and will repeat that on a much larger scale. So whereas I am confident that a salesman with exceptional skills ( and not over 50 ) - likely has a fairly easy time moving to another sales position, when the buying public shrinks - so does the opportunity to sell. Then you watch...the sales firms will want 20 somethings to sell because they have less financial needs to fill than a 40 something with a family. Also many are willing to work wihout any retirement plan or even health care plans...because they are young and indestructible... I know you see this as doom and gloom...but I have been very close to the situation - from an HR perspective, from a personal perspective with people I know in many different companies and yes even sales reps for major firms - over the past 5 years and the slide continues... I am sure there are some excellent salespeople from GM and Ford and their affiliates - yet 100,000 people will soon be out of work and most of those are NOT plant workers.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper My father-in-law still bitches and moans about outsourcing...then he proceeds to get on a plane to visit his plants in Mexico and China. Go figure.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ did he do the outsourcing himself or is his position one where he is responsible for the plants but he really had no control over the movement ? If he moved him because he made that decision - then yeah I would have to wonder...but I can tell you I work on off shoring daily because it is part of my role....I don't like it but until the day comes I find another role somewhere that will allow me to remain as financially stable...I do my job. Not very gallant I know...and am willing to take those slings and arrows..but nothing I can do will stop the madness....there needs to be a business incentive ( or penalty for participating) - or else no large corporation today is going to pay a CPA for instance $60K / yr here when they can get one in Bangalore for $8K - $10K --
Originally Posted By wahooskipper He is an executive, though not the one who made the ultimate decision.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 then he faces a similar choice as I do..continue to work and try and change things somewhat if you can..or leave and someone else will do exactly what he is doing today...I understand his conflict
Originally Posted By Beaumandy vbdad, I think you have some valid points. The thing is, as a person making a living supporting a family and a gambling habit ( ha ), I can't allow myself to worry about the things you are talking about. Sure it's great to be aware of what is going on in the world and how things are changing, but in the end I make money by selling things and by investing. I have been through some bad times in the last 20 years where the economy has sucked, people are not spending much money, layoffs are going on, etc. But even in those times I made money while others talked themselves into going broke. I'm telling you, it's all about a persons internal attitude and drive. I guess that is a reason I am a huge Rush Limbaugh fan. Forget his politics, the man is always positive about America, oportunity,and what people can accomplish. After 18 years of listening to him he has turned out to right in so many cases I can't even count them anymore. Just my opinion. But I can tell you this. Sales guy A who listens to positive messages and has a positive attitude will ALWAYS crush salesperson B who listens to negative messages and has a negative attitde. Same thing does for a doctor, a mechanic, a teacher, or a government employee.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^ you are entitled to your view-- what I am telling you is shortly, if the off shoring continues, the country will face a business crisis ( not being alarmist, this is an accurate decription) - of a magnitude neither you nor I have seen in our lifetime...and whether it is salesman A or salesman B - as I pointed out during the depression era - neither will be making money... unless both sides get their parties to address this issue -- the attitude part will be a relatively mute point. Yes a positive attitude in anything will carry you further than a negative attitude...but you keep confusing facing facts and trying to plan for them and do something about it with being negative, I don't see it that way. Blindly following somebody - anybody -- and blocking out all reality to me is akin to a fringe religion... but in 5 years or so we will see -- I gurantee I am doing what I can until then, and will be prepared to do something other than work for a major corp in the business world....you will still have your sales skills but IMHO the marketplace is going to change ( as it's changing now) -- I can also tell you major firms already recognize this andhave planning sessions to prepare to survive in a different marketplace..you can take that for the fact I know it to be...or listen to Rush and only focus on keep on keepin on..your call
Originally Posted By Beaumandy It's important to be aware of what is happening and to know the trends ( outsoucing ). Thing is vbdad, I don't think the world is going to end in 5 years because of outsourcing. Have you seen the amount of INSOURCING that is going on? You might want to look at all the jobs that are being created by Japan and other car companies that are building factories in Tennesee and other places. America has always changes, adjusted, shifed, moved. The manual typewriter repairman must have really thought the world was going to end. Same with the guy who fixed Buggies. Hopefully these guys shifed to fix PC's and cars. Everything you look at in your house of home was sold by someone. Even if thigs are made in China or India someone has to sell them to Americans.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It's important to be aware of what is happening and to know the trends ( outsoucing ). Thing is vbdad, I don't think the world is going to end in 5 years because of outsourcing. Have you seen the amount of INSOURCING that is going on? < please do your research on the numbers -- I will re-iterate those again -- 10 million over the past 7 years -- why do you keep ignoring this number ? the 'insourcing ' as you call it doees not even cover the losses at the Big 3 over the past 5 years and the projected 70,000 job losses already announced by Ford and GM.... Look at the trade deficit -- does Rush not talk about any of this ? My guess is no...why would he. I am not saying the world is ending in 5 years - so let's not overdramatize-- we are not on the radio...what I am telling you that the world is changing far more rapidly right now then before. yes the typewriter salesman was upset - but he was retrained by his company ( as I know this history first hand ) to sell word processing equipment and computers - that were alll being made here and sold here by American companies. Also the people placing those orders/ building that equipment / shipping that equipment and collecting the money for that equipment- as well as tracking revenue for it, sales productivity etc..were ALL HERE. Today the majority of that back office is NOT HERE - it is off shore...and the companies that used to have tuition reimbursement- most no longer do, and the companies that re-trained inhouse - well they don't want that 40 - 50 + salesman any more- he makes too much money and his benefits cost too much- they will hire a younger andmore importantly - less expensive replacement. Also the % of item being sold on-line is another factor your salesman of old never had to face. Almost 10% of autos in the US today are sold on line-- and my friends that own dealerships tell me the goal is to get to 25 - 30% in the next few years...this especially applies to high end models where the profits are. I bought my last car on line-- all I did was go in to sign the paperwork ..never talked to a salesman. look around your house like you say , as I do mne right now...my Viking Stove -- on line from Williams & Sonoma / my TV, on-line from Barretts Home theatres / both my daughters buy a large % of their clothes on line from American Eagle and Abercrombie... at work I know the facilities person orders and reorders most of the office supplies from Staples on line..no rep comes calling. And where do you think most of those sites are administered to ? Not in the US - nor are most customer service lines when you have an issue. Major firms are moving to invoices on line - you go and get your own invoice and pay on line - no personal intervention- and when you have a question on th invoice - call the customer help line and talk to India. you can choose to keep your head in the sand and ignore the changes..but they are all around you. Heck even banking...the major bank I deal with in Chicago is owned by a Canadian company - which is where their customer service moved 3 years ago - even the ATM's voices are Canadian...
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Everything you look at in your house of home was sold by someone.<< It was marketed by someone. More and more, however, consumers are able to bypass a physical salesperson. I don't think salepeople will ever be obsolete, by the way. And in spite of the million differences we have, Beau, I actually do agree that a positive attitude 9 times out of 10 is the defining trait of someone who makes it vs. someone who doesn't. That said, not adjusting one's opinions and attitude in response to conditions or facts is not positive attutude -- that's wearing rose-colored glasses.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>even the ATM's voices are Canadian...<< "Good day, eh. Takin' out another $20, eh?"
