Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>They haven't added new recognizable characters.<< They planned to. At the very last minute, two all-new hip characters ( "Justin Beebear" and "Katy Beary") were cut due to cost concerns.
Originally Posted By leemac <<They planned to. At the very last minute, two all-new hip characters ( "Justin Beebear" and "Katy Beary") were cut due to cost concerns.>> Think of all the lost merchandise opportunities. Duffy could have retired.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost <<<Unbelievable! And that's what we told the Supervisor we were speaking with. I don't think your average guest would ever come up with such an idea to begin with.>>> As much as I have always liked CB's the last time I went, it all of a sudden seemed, to drag on with no real segway that seemed natural. I actually like the quicker show with less set changing and useless banter. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By choco choco <<Audio Animatronics shows have a place in any Disney theme park - they should be a mandatory item on any menu plan.>> Interesting statement. I know you are an unabashed fan of AA shows, but declining attendance at: Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears', American Adventure...seems to show that they just don't resonate with modern audiences. This isn't a new phenomenon. America Sings is long gone and all the others are constantly candidates to be taken out. And it took some weird Walt-evangelizing to get Lincoln back to Disneyland.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<leemac, was the show shortened for FP+/NexGen purposes?>> Yes. A lot of the attractions have been sped up over the past few years in a mad dash to move people around the park quicker.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Interesting statement. I know you are an unabashed fan of AA shows, but declining attendance at: Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears', American Adventure...seems to show that they just don't resonate with modern audiences. >> I can't speak for the others, but CBJ did not experience a decline in attendance leading up to this change. And HoP's attendance has been flat for the better part of a decade.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Interesting statement. I know you are an unabashed fan of AA shows, but declining attendance at: Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears', American Adventure...seems to show that they just don't resonate with modern audiences. >> Interesting third post too. Welcome to LP. I wouldn't say unabashed but they have a place in any Disney theme park. I am an unabashed fan of appropriate menu planning. Disney theme parks need to have attractions, shows and parades that offer full day experiences for as many categories of guest as possible. However they still need to resonate with their target demographic. As I said - MK has 4 (forgot HoP) and personally I think that is one too many. The problem is that both Tiki and CBJ are in terrible spot for future development. Although they both share a show building it isn't much use for anything other than small attraction shows. We know that WDW Co. would never raze that entire block to the ground so it is either shutter the shows or keep them operating. There aren't enough show experiences at MK any more - particularly those that are indoors to escape the Central FL weather. CBJ accomplishes that. Not everything need to resonate with every guest. American Adventure should be sacrosanct - it is the last of its kind in Epcot in its original format. There is no problem in my view if any attraction should be preserved for prosperity "just because" - not everything needs a ROI. Lincoln is the same - personally I'd have had no problem if it had been removed rather than having millions of dollars sunk into another version - but I appreciate its place in DL history.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Interesting statement. I know you are an unabashed fan of AA shows, but declining attendance at: Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears', American Adventure...seems to show that they just don't resonate with modern audiences. >> That isn't specifically for NGE. Parks are measured on the average number of attractions that guests experience. MK has been undercapacity for years - a quick fix is to either run more shows or cut their length. That is quicker and cheaper than building new attractions. FLE only got approved because MK dipped way below the accepted average minimum number of attractions experienced. It was a capital project of last resort for WDW Co. Their hands were tied - something needed to be done.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I can't speak for the others, but CBJ did not experience a decline in attendance leading up to this change.>> That isn't fully the point though. CBJ offered capacity - the alternative was either shutter it (and lose the capacity), rewrite the show or replace it. Attendance is important but ultimately it is about capacity. If your park is full of attractions that are all the latest hot E-Ticket it would be a disaster - guests would be sat in City Hall all day long. MK could have done a lot more to encourage guests to experience CBJ but they chose not to do so. It is in a high traffic location (unlike DL's version) and it would take little to put together skits outside that would encourage viewership. There is just no invention. Instead someone in Ops puts together an exist survey that says "would you like the show to be shorter" which prompts a response rather than "is the show the right length?" which I guarantee wasn't asked. Those exit surveys exist solely to back up management's POV on a matter. They aren't social science in action.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Interesting statement. I know you are an unabashed fan of AA shows, but declining attendance at: Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears', American Adventure...seems to show that they just don't resonate with modern audiences.>> And back to my usual rant about MK - menu planning just doesn't exist at WDW any more. Each park has a specific mission statement and every new development is supposed to meet that definition. MK is now targeted solely at the stroller brigade and hence we have all of the FLE stuff that appeals to guests below the average height requirement. Those AA shows exist in spite of what management really want to do to them - because they offer capacity. Successive MK management teams have wanted dearly to shutter them but they have no budget to replace them and the park needs capacity. MK has suffered from poor menu planning for years. It is the cash cow of WDW Co. and has been mined as such.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>MK could have done a lot more to encourage guests to experience CBJ but they chose not to do so.<< But in fairness, we're talking about a show that has been around since 1972. That's incredibly long. To expect audience enthusiasm for something so familiar, that really isn't very repeatable, is asking a lot. I think every attraction has a stale date, some farther out than others. But shows in particular need to be refreshed often. And when the performers are completely programmable, there's just no excuse for not offering several variations of the show throughout the year.
Originally Posted By leemac <<But in fairness, we're talking about a show that has been around since 1972. That's incredibly long. To expect audience enthusiasm for something so familiar, that really isn't very repeatable, is asking a lot.>> The majority of MK guests have either never experienced the park or visit once every 5 years. So repeatability shouldn't really be the issue. MK is in sharp contrast to DL where the majority of guests have visited in the last 3 years. That said - it is an old show and it is competing with a lot of fresher experiences. It would be a tough show to rewrite - that I understand. However bringing in new characters (either original or from animated movies) to mix in with the Country Bears would have worked.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>However bringing in new characters (either original or from animated movies) to mix in with the Country Bears would have worked.<< Defintely could have added some new characters. I was joking about Justin Beebear, but a little of that sort of in-the-moment celebrity could be fun (though he's certainly not country.) The problem is when Justin Beebear, with his long fabulous forelocks, is still there 30 years from now. Having suffered through Tike Room Under new management, I am very cool to the idea of mixing in bears from other Disney animated features. with CBJ characters. But there's room for a Tim McGrowl. ; )
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Or maybe, Ellen and some dinosaurs can visit from EPCOT? That might liven up things.....<sar> Seriously, I think changing up the show seasonally would be a big help.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The way I look at it, the MK is a large park with lots of rides and attractions. CBJ is not on my absolutely have "to do" list. Maybe if it was open during MNSSHP or MVMCP I would experience it. I enjoy Tiki birds much more and I figure enjoying one AA show in MK per trip is enough.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> That isn't specifically for NGE. Parks are measured on the average number of attractions that guests experience. MK has been undercapacity for years - a quick fix is to either run more shows or cut their length. That is quicker and cheaper than building new attractions. << Absolutely pathetic. At least we might get Cars or Avatar in the next few years. (Will either be open before 2015?) Because I doubt I'll be back at the WDW parks before then. It's unbelievable how neglected the parks have been over the past several years.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I was joking about Justin Beebear, but a little of that sort of in-the-moment celebrity could be fun (though he's certainly not country.) >> One of the biggest problems we face is the quality of writers. It has always puzzled me why we don't use more external writers - from sitcoms or movies - to help with the comedy. Comedy has never been the strongest forte of WDI show writing. I'm not suggesting to bring in Chuck Lorre but there are a lot of very talented writers out there that would love to have their material featured in an attraction. It would keep it fresh and updated.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I enjoy Tiki birds much more and I figure enjoying one AA show in MK per trip is enough.>> And that's the rub - you aren't alone in that thinking. When there are 4 of these shows then it begs the question whether that is truly sustainable.
