Originally Posted By danyoung >You may want to look into the Disney Dining Experience.< I've used it before, and will be buying it again this trip. In fact, I was able to use it along with the DDP last October and get 20% off of the alcohol that wasn't covered by the DDP. And Chi, whatever the overall balance of savings vs. rising costs, right now if the DDE saves me 20%, including alcohol, then that's money back in my pocket. It easily pays for itself in one visit, and is just gravy for the next couple of visits I squeeze in on the same card. The prices don't concern me - it's the lowering of the quality, and the simplifying of the menus that's my real problem. I want fine dining in a Disney park, not a $24 hamburger.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Does this mean that NO table service restaurants accept walk-ins anymore?< It's right next to impossible. In Epcot, where there are many restaurants, you usually can get a walk-in if you don't care where you eat. But I haven't had dinner in the Coral Reef or Le Cellier in 2 years, as I haven't booked ahead far enough. >I am going through smallworldvacations and was able to get every restaurant I wanted the first week of December at really good times.< Your message stated why you were "lucky". You used a travel agent, and they know the rules. I'll guarantee that they have people on the phone at 8am eastern time every single morning, booking their massive amounts of reservations for their clients. I called Monday evening, which was the first day that was 180 days out, and already had my first choice, the Coral Reef, totally booked for that day. And since I haven't booked my hotel yet, I'm not eligible for the 180 Plus thing. I'm having to book day to day. So far, so good. But it's a huge change from the way I'm used to booking WDW trips, which I've been going on at least twice a year for the past 15 years or so. It won't kill my vacation if this is the way it all has to be, but that doesn't mean that I like it.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey dan, I know you're waiting for AP rates to come out for December, but what I did was book at regular rates and then, when the AP rates come out, I change them over. That way you can still do the dinig ressies 180 days out. We're going November 29-December 3.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Chi, I see what you are saying. Yeah, I know for a fact I wouldn't get concierge at $200 per night. The problem is (as I think you said) people just keep paying. It would take a massive boycott to affect any of the Deluxe hotel rates. Heck, I'm guilty. I booked Poly for me honeymoon (I'm not staying concierge though, it was way too expensive). I just noticed I said for 'me' honeymoon. Too much PotC for me. ARRR!! Anyway, I understand the restaurant issue too. I'm also wondering when the dumbing down of the menus started. I went in 2005 and didn't notice this. Maybe I just missed it though. I also don't think this is happening at every restaurant. The higher end ones (like California Grill, Flying Fish, etc.) seem to still have great menus. But I will admit that I saw chicken fingers and mac and cheese and spaghetti and meatballs on the current Boma menu at allears.net. That doesn't seem to fit the theme to me. Call me crazy. I think the whole point of having all these restaurants is so you can try different foods. In fact it is one of my favorite things at Disney. I am going to 8 restaurants I have not been to ever when going to WDW this time around. And that to me is exciting. But I also know some people hate that. They need to have the same things each day. They have, and excuse the term, 'childish palettes'. Btw, I didn't mean to insult with that one, but that's how it seems. I just hope the menu downfall (which I admit I have not really experienced first hand yet, but their seems to be evidence) doesn't get so bad that it doesn't matter where you go. I don't want to have the same menu at Le Cellier as I do at the Sci-fi Dine In.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn I also hope my spelling and grammar downfall doesn't continue. their instead of there? Come on! ARR mateys! Baton down the hatches and stuff a yardarm up me butt! We'll teach him to be a right pirate yet we will, says I!
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The prices don't concern me - it's the lowering of the quality, and the simplifying of the menus that's my real problem.<< Dan, no problem with how you choose to vacation, just pointing out that DDE this and DDP that is what allows Disney to cause the problems you do care about. >>. And since I haven't booked my hotel yet, I'm not eligible for the 180 Plus thing.<< Another huge problem that was predicted. I was shocked when they went to 180 days and this 180 days plus thing really makes me dizzy. How crazy are we going to get! Pretty soon they will have to add a adjustable date field to their booking system so somebody can decide that 14 months from now, that on day three of their vacation, Wednesday, @ 1:30 PM they will want to be having Pizza will Pooh. Oh, how I miss the days of going to a Disney park without a dayplanner, stopwatch, PDA, fastpass tickets, park tickets, photo cards, etc. Am I the only person who vacations anymore to get away from stressful schedules and carrying multiple items with me throughout the day?
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Hey Chi. I think some people don't mind the scheduling. Some like it. Personally I don't mind having the dining times booked in advance. But I wouldn't go so far as to book what ride I'm going to ride at what time. Also, the fast passes give you an hour window, so I don't find them that constraining. I still find my vacation very relaxing regardless. I do wonder if things will get so bad that they will be limiting the 180 day thing to just people staying at Disney. And also a worry... if they ever expand the DDP to people not staying on Disney property we're hosed.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 It's really bad for those of us that just want to go up for the day, and don't know months in advance when they're going to go. I used to be able to make lunch and dinner reservations in the morning when I got to EPCOT, but now only the unpopular places have room that day. Even when I call a few days ahead of time, most places are booked up. What a pain...
Originally Posted By danyoung >I was shocked when they went to 180 days and this 180 days plus thing really makes me dizzy.< If they're going to force me into booking dining that far ahead, they need to also release the park operating schedules that far ahead. I usually select which park to do on which day based on which one has extra magic hours. I usually stay away from them, as they tend to draw more crowds. Plus, I'm not big on staying in a park till midnight or 1am - I'm just too old and tired to do that anymore! But now I'm booking blind, and will just have to take whatever park hours I get. >...what I did was book at regular rates and then, when the AP rates come out, I change them over.< Right now I have every dime tied up in a SoCal vacation, and didn't budget for even the one night I'd have to pay for up front. I guess I need to do it that way in the future if I want to take full advantage of the 180 Plus thing. I dunno, I guess what really peeves me is that I'm an old veteran at WDW trips, and now here comes a new curve that's really thrown me. I'll work it all out and have a great time and eat till I'm stuffed to the gills. I just don't like change like this that doesn't work in my favor.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Dan, I was under the impression that they do release park times 6 months out. At least they have Dec. times now and did on June the 4th. Didn't check on the first though. They also indicate on the calender which days have extra magic hours, and if I remember correctly the morning ones are always the first EM day and the evening is always the second. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong about that last statement.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Chi-Mike: What is your freaking problem? Do you ever have anything good to say about ANYTHING? I thought TDLFAN and The Spirit tended to be negative at times, but you are negative ALL the time!! Why don't you just go to Six Flags Great America if you hate Disney so freaking much?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It didn't work out well for me because I really like the 2-credit places like the California Grill and the Brown Derby, which left me with several meals that I still had to pay cash for. I think I saved a bit of money, but it just wasn't worth the extra hassle for me. < thanks for the explanation Dan, see for me this would be the same issue.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So basically since Disney allowed APs to buy DDE, they have raised their menu prices to offset the 20%, while still profiting on guests who don't use either mechanism. Most significantly, Disney is making a killing on the pure revenue from the hundreds of DDE memberships. < so menu prices around the rest of the country have been stable ? Article out today that the prices of groceries has risen on average almost 20% YTY - and since I do all the shopping at home I believe that. I do not think the price increases and DDE have a 1:1 relationship.....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But I will admit that I saw chicken fingers and mac and cheese and spaghetti and meatballs on the current Boma menu at allears.net. That doesn't seem to fit the theme to me. Call me crazy. < Crazy ! ok -- j/k those items are on the kids tray for the uber picky eating kids so that the adults can still dine there without having to give said kids a pb&j sandwhich before dinner -- there are no part of the dining experience for adults - or kids who eat more items than those 4-5 --. My kids would never stop at the part of the food bar at Boma.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 My daughter was going through the menus of some of the restaurants she wants to go to, we've since decided we don't want to do the dining plan. If you do dinner and breakfast at the Castle, you've used up 4 meals per person, so you'd end up still having to buy 2 more meals, and the cost of the plan is much more than just paying outright for the Castle meals, or any other place that requires 2 meals. I'm sure for kids $10 a day is great, but for adults... we're passing on the DDP.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Thanks vbdad. I haven't eaten at Boma before so I was unaware. I understand kids being picky. I used to eat chicken fingers non stop during my childhood WDW years. I think my parents may have purposely avoided some restaurants until my tastes matured and I became less picky and willing to try new things. I sort of gradually grew into it. It's great that your kids like foods outside of the typical American fare. I have a friends who just doesn't try new things. He really doesn't know what he is missing. bobbelee, I think you also need to factor in the counter meals you get and the snacks. That is a big savings. Also, I am using the DDP during my honeymoon and find that it is saving me money even though I am eating at more sit down places than it covers. The key I've found is to look at where you want to eat ahead of time and then use the sit down meal points (is that what you call them?) on the meals that would cost the most out of pocket. For example, I would pay for a buffet (biergarten, chef mickey's) and use a point on Le Cellier as you can easily spend $100 on a two person meal there while the buffet only costs $40 to $50. And in some cases using the two points still saves you money. California Grill I think is a good example of this. That can be a $150 to $160 bill without too much problem I think.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Thanks vbdad. I haven't eaten at Boma before so I was unaware. I understand kids being picky. I used to eat chicken fingers non stop during my childhood WDW years. I think my parents may have purposely avoided some restaurants until my tastes matured and I became less picky and willing to try new things. I sort of gradually grew into it. It's great that your kids like foods outside of the typical American fare. I have a friends who just doesn't try new things. He really doesn't know what he is missing. < np - glad to clarify -- my kids have always eaten a wide ranging cuisine so I am lucky -- I do remember my sister when she was younger though went thru a stretch where all she ate was cut up hot dogs for like a year -- she was about 5 or 6 at the time
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 WeirdJohn, please don't confuse me with facts. I've been on such a roller coaster ride over the DDP. 2 of my daughters have children (9,7,5 when we go) the daughters and the kids don't want to do many sit downs, their husbands and my husband do. As long as I can have food that I don't make at home I'm happy. My only requirement is a dinner at the Castle.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>so menu prices around the rest of the country have been stable ? Article out today that the prices of groceries has risen on average almost 20% YTY - and since I do all the shopping at home I believe that. I do not think the price increases and DDE have a 1:1 relationship.....<< I’m not going to try to argue economic theory, but when you're talking a loaf of bread, 20% is not equitable to the same increases WDW dining has seen in past years. And more important are the hidden effects of menu selection. Limiting the low margin items while raising prices on the leftover, higher margin selections. Show me another theme park that has had its prices increase to the +50% levels that some of the restaurants at WDW have experienced. This isn't due to a special, super-secret, double-probation type of inflation that is striking our economy. Costs are up no doubt. But it’s like 2001 when people were arguing high gas prices were keeping guests from coming to DCA, yet Disneyland next door was exceeding it’s targets. How come Disney didn’t need to raise the prices at Disneyland as significantly? For me, it’s rather simple. Demand for the restaurants has increased. The prices to participate in the DDP have barely increased. People who do not participate in the plan, and especially those with a CM or DDE discount, are being charged higher prices that don’t affect/anger DDP participants. Actually one of the reasons the prices were raised were to juxtapose with how much a better deal the DDP was. If anything I would say that the price increases at WDW and the increase in cost for a head of lettuce were what wasn’t an 1:1 relationship. I’ll say it again, Disney will make its money one way or another. I do not blame anyone for trying to find the best deal, heck, I do. But let’s not kid ourselves, on a macro level, these schemes all contribute to a lower quality experience/product. As a collective group, we as guests are enabling this to occur. A product/experience that becomes diluted for the sake of increasing its distribution & value to larger volumes of people.
