Originally Posted By danyoung >Dan, I was under the impression that they do release park times 6 months out. At least they have Dec. times now and did on June the 4th.< If this is true, it kinda undercuts some of my argument, don't it? I didn't check, as they used to not put out hours this early. At least this will help me plan the rest of my week. See, even when ranting I can still learn . . .
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I’m not going to try to argue economic theory, but when you're talking a loaf of bread, 20% is not equitable to the same increases WDW dining has seen in past years. < Mike that 20% increase is in 1 YEAR, not many -- However I also am not going to get into the fact that many of my favorite experiences / restaurants have had large increases over the past 5 years or so - while salaries stay the same and cost of benefits skyrockets every year. That is why I make choices - and if I think something that is a luxury, not a necessity is too expensive, I stop going. I go to very few concerts any more because $125 - $450 tickets for most of the talent out there is not worth it in my books..... If one feels Disney is ripping them off for less experience, they likely either need a break from it, or stop experiencing. This is not a love it or leave it statement, it is no different than what I followed regarding concerts that I used to go to all the time. I just spent $600 for one Cubs game last week ( family of 4 )by the time the day was done - talk about not getting value for your money - which is why I now go to 1 game ( maybe 2 ) per year instead of 10. One day the decision will come on whether to stop all together. While I agree Disney is looking to make a few bucks, and a few bucks more wherever they can - I do not see them as the biggest offenders I experience right now. I agree I dislike the dumbing down of some restaurant menus ( some of those places I now skip ) -, I dislike the fact that the parks used to be cleaner, I dislike ( OK really dislike) when WDI gives us the Pooh Playground in the area where 20K used to sit, that CoP is not maintained - etc etc. -- But I still enjoy my experience overall - so I still go. If I ever get to the point where I rip every single thing they do, think the food sucks, the hotels suck, the parks suck - etc -- guess what -- I will be going somewhere else. I hope it NEVER comes to that...many places I used to love are gone, I hope WDW never is, but know nothing is for sure.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>Dan, I was under the impression that they do release park times 6 months out. At least they have Dec. times now and did on June the 4th.< If this is true, it kinda undercuts some of my argument, don't it? I didn't check, as they used to not put out hours this early. At least this will help me plan the rest of my week. See, even when ranting I can still learn . . . < yep I remember sometimes being ticked because park hours like 100 day sout weren't there and I wanted to ensure for instance that my Cali Grill ressies were during fireworks, not an hour off --etc..
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<These same people are complaining that they can't get burgers and chicken fingers in a fine French restaurant, which is resulting in the dumbing down (the Walmarting, if you will) of the menus.>> (Tears welling up) ... I'm so proud of you, Danny! (sniffle ... sob ... sob ...) <<It's getting worse every year, and is a downward trend that I really hope someone at Disney is smart enough to head off before I start going off property as well.>> Send a letter to Dieter Hannig, head of WDW Food and Beverage. Email him. Phone him. Explain why WalMarting WDW Dining isn't smart, no matter what the consultants and MBAs think.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<When I originally had DDE it was for Florida residents only. It was cheaper to use and the discounts were more beneficial in the fact that the restaurants were better run with better food. Most importantly, while DDE and the dining plan have grown in popularity and use, the menu prices have gone up substantially. So basically since Disney allowed APs to buy DDE, they have raised their menu prices to offset the 20%, while still profiting on guests who don't use either mechanism. Most significantly, Disney is making a killing on the pure revenue from the hundreds of DDE memberships.>> Original DDE member here ... from back in 1995 when it started. Yeah, what a deal. $25 for a family for TWO cards. And food prices ... nothing like having a $19.99 filet at the Concourse Steakhouse that INCLUDED soup or salad and a side dish and then getting 20% off ... (you all talk, I'm going to start crying again). Seriously, you nailed it, Mike. If everyone gets discounts like they currently do, they cease to matter OR they result in a vastly dumbed down product.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<In 2000 I stayed at the Polynesian Concierge for $200 a night. This was pre-9/11 with the Millennium celebration when tourism was >>supposedly<< so great. Good luck trying to find that rate today.>> Hey, what gives? I did too, but I paid $225 a night!
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>If one feels Disney is ripping them off for less experience, they likely either need a break from it, or stop experiencing. This is not a love it or leave it statement, it is no different than what I followed regarding concerts that I used to go to all the time.<< >>If I ever get to the point where I rip every single thing they do, think the food sucks, the hotels suck, the parks suck - etc -- guess what -- I will be going somewhere else. I hope it NEVER comes to that...many places I used to love are gone, I hope WDW never is, but know nothing is for sure.<< I would hope you're not buying into this silly notion that I hate WDW or Disney. Nothing could be futher from the truth and it is my appreciation of Disney that leads me to post this week on lp. I know where I have been through the decades so I am very comfortable with where I stand on Disney. That said, I have no problem admitting that my last trip to WDW has been the only trip I have taken to WDW in the last 22 months and it will likely be another year and a half before I return. Now I have been in Orlando much more than that at random times but no longer feel the need to visit the mouse. The only reason I made my last trip was because we are still in DVC and were meeting another couple. Otherwise I would not have even made that trip. And it is because there really isn't much left there for me. I can understand someone who just started visiting WS since 1999 and thinks they can lecture me about being a good Disney fanboy. But I have been visiting WS since before Day 1. So the remaining gems, like WS, at WDW just can't overpower the negatives for me right now. The food stinks, a lot of employees stink, the hotels stink, most of the new attractions stink, the MK stinks, the shopping stinks. All my opinion, but a rather accurate one in my eyes. I was in the second crowd to see Monsters back in mid November. I am sitting there just asking myself what the heck is going on. I couldn't even participate in Q&A because I was so flabbergasted at what a hollow shell WDI had become. They're simply a bunch of technocrats, with technocrat tastes and abilities. Even Everest was ho-hum for me. Not that it didnt have it's merits, just that they only went 90% with it. It felt incomplete. So, I have diverted my trips to other Disney parks. While I used to visit WDW 3-4 times a year, it is now what I described. Now I spend 3-4 weekends in SoCal. I have now visited Japan and will be back their for a second time in two years. I am not some internet recluse who is bitter. Anything but. Is John Lasseter considered bitter or a negative scoundral for also having negative views towards Florida? I mean, lets be serious.... I am someone who gives Disney a lot of my hard earned $$$ and expect more value as the price goes up, not less. So I hope that helps clarify my position. I understand that many people are feeling the crunch of higher prices of energy, taxes, education. But I won't ignore the fact that what Disney did with dining and rack rates was based strictly on what they could get away with by offering a cruiseline like system.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm also wondering when the dumbing down of the menus started. I went in 2005 and didn't notice this. Maybe I just missed it though. >> The dumbing down started in the mid-90s, believe it or not, with the hiring of high-priced consultants who taught Disney how to break a business that was running on all cylinders ... but this is what consultants largely do. The second phase (the one everyone seems to notice) happened around 2001-02 using 9/11 as an excuse. Finally, the DDP, introduced 2-3 years ago just put the pedal to the floor as far as dumbing down menus goes. <<I am going to 8 restaurants I have not been to ever when going to WDW this time around. And that to me is exciting. But I also know some people hate that. They need to have the same things each day. They have, and excuse the term, 'childish palettes'. Btw, I didn't mean to insult with that one, but that's how it seems.>> I LOVE IT when others notice what I've seen for years and have the conviction to write it without fear of offending strangers in cyberspace! Yeah ... simple, childish, undeveloped, unrefined ... whatever ... that's most Disney guests. And the Mouse is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Folks who only order cheese pizza ... and have plain burgers and fries ... and are afraid of veggies ... I love to see grown adults spend $25.99 to dine at Boma and only eat chicken fingers and fries from the kids buffet. It always reassures me that this country is headed in the right direction! (yeah, a leap, but at least I know what I mean!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Am I the only person who vacations anymore to get away from stressful schedules and carrying multiple items with me throughout the day?>> Nope. There's a few of us still out there.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Hey, what gives? I did too, but I paid $225 a night!<< I went back and looked at my statement and I actually paid $220. plus tax. So more inline with what you paid. I don't have that good of a memory. While I have not posted for a while I have read the whole time on here and other boards, and, Spirit, without your excellent posts and unwavering ideals I probably would have ate up even more time jumping in to discuss this or that. I say this in pure esteem, You certainly have had an impact since 2004.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <And the Mouse is pandering to the lowest common denominator< while there is more than a little truth to this....it seems like a widespread theme , surely not limited to the Mouse... Ford / GM had done the same thing, trying to convince everyone that a Taurus in every garage, ( won't even touch the GM efforts to have a Taurus) - have turned out well...McDonalds makes a grown up sandwhich ( Arch Deluxe ) and no one buys it, Burger Kings marketing - give em larger crap and they'll eat even more ( triple whoppers - triple meat breakfast sandwhichs) - whatever style the GAP thinks they have as they slowly fade to being irrelevant, and for the sake of keeping Spirit's bloodpressure down, won't go near Walmart.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Wow lots of posts since I wrote last. <<I LOVE IT when others notice what I've seen for years and have the conviction to write it without fear of offending strangers in cyberspace! Yeah ... simple, childish, undeveloped, unrefined ... whatever ... that's most Disney guests.>> I impressed Spirit with an LP post, my life is complete! Seriously though, it does drive me crazy that there are people who won't try something new. I mean they are really missing out. Where would I be if my friend Kapil hadn't introduced me to Indian cuisine? Or if my fiance had brought me to a Thai and Vietnemese restaurant? Think of all the enjoyment I would have missed! Ok, maybe that was a bit dramatic, but you get the point. If you are going to just eat hot dogs or hamburgers, etc. definitely save your money on the dining plan and just buy the counter service meals. You'll do yourself a favor and it won't force Disney to dumb down the menu as much. Though I'm not so sure it's the patrons causing that as much as it is the bottom line.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn <<WeirdJohn, please don't confuse me with facts. I've been on such a roller coaster ride over the DDP. 2 of my daughters have children (9,7,5 when we go) the daughters and the kids don't want to do many sit downs, their husbands and my husband do. As long as I can have food that I don't make at home I'm happy. My only requirement is a dinner at the Castle.>> Ok, bobbelee. Just hoped I could help. I can see how in that situation the DDP just wouldn't work for you. The larger the group the harder it is to get something for everyone.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn <<while there is more than a little truth to this....it seems like a widespread theme , surely not limited to the Mouse... Ford / GM had done the same thing, trying to convince everyone that a Taurus in every garage, ( won't even touch the GM efforts to have a Taurus) - have turned out well...McDonalds makes a grown up sandwhich ( Arch Deluxe ) and no one buys it, Burger Kings marketing - give em larger crap and they'll eat even more ( triple whoppers - triple meat breakfast sandwhichs) - whatever style the GAP thinks they have as they slowly fade to being irrelevant, and for the sake of keeping Spirit's bloodpressure down, won't go near Walmart.>> I think it is a differing of mentality vbdad. There are people who appreciate quality and will not be adverse to spending for it. I am one of those as are a lot of people who post here. If it's good you pay for it. It's one of the reasons I buy Toyota even though it is more expensive. I know it will last a long time and probably won't cause me problems. But there are people who want high quality but don't want to pay for it. That drives me crazy. That's like someone saying I need really good national health care, but I don't want to pay more taxes. In fact, I want to pay less. Sorry, doesn't work. So instead you get crappy products that look like high quality, but are really just poor quality that got painted over. I can see where some parts of Disney have gotten like that. And that is a shame. Hopefully that won't continue. Ok, that's my last post for tonight. I'll check you all tomorrow. Very interesting conversation going on here. Props to dan for posting the topic. I think it was the word SUCKS in all caps that grabbed a lot of people.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Yeah, John, I don't know why but the words 'Dan' and 'SUCKS' go together like apple pie and ice cream ;-)
Originally Posted By danyoung OK, this morning's update - I called right at 7am central time (8am eastern), only to find out that they now start taking calls at 7am eastern, so I was already an hour late. Still the Coral Reef was almost sold out for dinner on 12/4. I could have gone with an 8pm rez, which would be too late to see IllumiNations. So I settled for the San Angel Inn, which isn't bad. I'll try again tomorrow, at 6am central, and see if I can get a good time at the Coral Reef. This is really a pain!!!!!!
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "If everyone gets discounts like they currently do, they cease to matter OR they result in a vastly dumbed down product." But if everyone gets a discount, is it really a discount anymore? It becomes phsychological. We think we're getting a discount because we got 20% off our $24.99 entre, but really, the original price was inflated anyway. It's like going to someplace like the Virgin Megastore when they have a big "sale", but the prices on DVD's is already inflated, so we end up really paying what we might have at Best Buy or Walmart on a normal day. Whatever, I know I'm just ranting on that a bit, but I wonder if that's what will happen at WDW...or already is. "<<Am I the only person who vacations anymore to get away from stressful schedules and carrying multiple items with me throughout the day?>> Nope. There's a few of us still out there." Same here! Oh, I have another question too. What about APers who just want to visit for the day, are they pretty much screwed out of dining where they want because of DDP? I mean it's not like they are staying on property and planning 180 days in advance. This is what I like about the Disneyland Resort. They don't have the DDP (yet), and it's not too hard to eat anywhere spontaneously in the park. Yeah, maybe Blue Bayou, but that's one restaurant out of many. Plus DtD is so close it's easy to go out and eat then go back to the parks. WDW takes much more time to leave the park and eat someplace else.
Originally Posted By danyoung >What about APers who just want to visit for the day, are they pretty much screwed out of dining where they want because of DDP?< I do know that the automated reservation system has a separate selection for when you're either a local or booking within the next 7 days. Perhaps Disney is now holding a portion of their dining inventory for more or less last minute bookings. If so, I think this is an excellent move.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I think it is a differing of mentality vbdad. There are people who appreciate quality and will not be adverse to spending for it. I am one of those as are a lot of people who post here. If it's good you pay for it. It's one of the reasons I buy Toyota even though it is more expensive. I know it will last a long time and probably won't cause me problems. > oh and I am right with you ( although be careful making that statement - trust me on this) - I drive Bimmers and bought my daughter a Corolla to go away to college for the same reasons you state) - I am a fan of 4 Season's opening on the grounds - etc.. what I am saying is that it is a bigger issue than just the mouse. We have newspapers that seem to now write at about a 5th grade level ( we actually had one in Chicago to admit to something close to that a few years ago ) - because that is where they see the median -- it is very scary to me.
Originally Posted By WeirdJohn Yeah that is scary vbdad. We are definitely behind the world curve when it comes to education. It's one of the reasons so many graduate students here are from foreign countries. It also means that when an American student applies for graduate school people practically fall all over themselves to sign them up. And that's not good either.
