Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I think PatF had several things going against it and part of it is the super-saturation of the Princess thing they have going now. Another is having to rebuild their reputation after a string of not so good features and Direct-to-DVD crap.>> No one has said it, but I really do think that audiences are also more interested in computer animated features too. Not that a traditionally animated movie can't be successful, but I think it's more an uphill battle now.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: You may be right, trekkeruss, duckling, but from what my sisters and I have read on various web-footed sites out there, there seems to be quite a lot of fan out there who still prefer the hand drawn animation. Many are expressing disappointment over the fact that Rapunzel isn't fully hand drawn, although it looks very pretty from what we've seen. ORWEN: Well, I just wanna' say that if the time for fairy tales and princesses is past, why is so much money still being made off the merchandise from them? I mean, really!! Even the new Fantasyland at Walt Disney World is going to have a heavy emphasis on the fairy tales. I don't believe they'll ever really be out of style. That rumor was just started by some old sour puss who never cared for fairy tales in the first place. ORDDU: As for ebellishing the story of Rapunzel, I can think of many embellishments they could have done while keeping the girl confined to her tower. For instance, there is a lot of drama to be had between Rapunzel and Mother Gothel over the fact that she had been lied to about the truth concerning her birth. Aside from that, after she is rescued from the tower, she could have some interesting adventures before being reunited with her prince. The possibilities are many. It's just that the current script writers in charge couldn't come up such ideas on their own and probably aren't interested in doing a fairy tale to begin with.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance I'm still trying to figure out the whole Witches of Morva thing
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I just wanna' say that if the time for fairy tales and princesses is past, why is so much money still being made off the merchandise from them?<< Observation: The money is being made off the characters, not their stories. Pretty girls in snazzy ball gowns. >>there is a lot of drama to be had between Rapunzel and Mother Gothel over the fact that she had been lied to about the truth concerning her birth.<< Verbal conflict doesn't animate too well. Nothing worse than watching two animated characters sitting and yakking for an extended period. And "princess stuck in a castle while magical characters carry the movie" has been done. Audiences aren't going to want to see Beauty and the Beast Without the Beast. >>after she is rescued from the tower, she could have some interesting adventures before being reunited with her prince.<< Isn't that what they're doing?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I'm still trying to figure out the whole Witches of Morva thing<< The people who made the movie are still trying to figure out the whole Witches of Morva thing. ;-)
Originally Posted By Y Tywysog Disney <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398286/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398286/</a> The Internet Movie Database has just changed the title of 'Rapunzel' to 'Tangled'... I know that you shouldn't judge a film by its title necessarily... but this title change is all about how they want to market this film. So instead of marketing this film in the tradition of classic Disney like Beauty and the Beast or Cinderella.... Disney has decided to use a title that envokes the idea that this is going to be some parody in the tradition of Hoodwinked or Happily N'ever After I'm sorry but if you look at the artwork on the imdb site, the title "Tangled" simply does not do it justice.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: Well, Heck! I's still tryin' ta figure out this CuriouserConstance, dame!
Originally Posted By Y Tywysog Disney PS If you search "Tangled" on the imdb, the first thing that pops up is the 2001 R-Rated film "Tangled" which immediately shows a trailer with a naked man in it.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Well, mawnck, duckling, you say there's nothing worse than two animated characters sitting and yaking for an extened period. I suppose it depends on what they're 'yaking' about and what sort of business they're doing while they're yaking. ORWEN: All characters in All animated films have to talk to each other about something. But if you'll notice, there are usually other things going on while the talking is taking place. Like the king in Cinderella. While he talks to the Grand Duke about how to cause the prince to fall in love, there are other things going on to make their conversation more interesting. ORDDU: If they animated the story of Rapunzel in her tower with equally interesting 'business' going on while she was demanding answers from Mother Gothel, it could be quite interesting. There could be a series of visits to the tower by the witch and each time she came Rapunzel would have different probling questions to ask. These conflicting questions would eventually reach a climax that would result in Rapuzel letting it slip that she was seeing a prince in secret. ORWEN: The prince, himself, could be the catalyst for a lot of interesting conversatinos between him and Rapunzel. I could envision him singing a song that would cause Rapunzel to daydream about the outside world and the animators could create a whole montage of interesting images from her mind's eye. They could creat images of her swimming for the first time--or riding a horse for the first time--or dancing in a ball room for the first time. ORDDU: The point IS, that something COULD be done to enliven the story so that even a skeptic, like yourself, would enjoy it. We just don't think the current script writers have tried hard enough--possibly because they're not the correct script writers to begin with. ORWEN: Also, we're not saying the entire movie should have Rapunzel remain a prisoner in her tower for most of the movie. I'd like to see a scene where she escapes as is reunited with her real parents. I'd like to see a scene where Rapunzel confronts the witch for having mistreated her parents. Maybe have the witch murder Rapunzel's father on the same night she stole the baby away from him. Years later they could have Rapunzel find out about this and have her confront the old hag for what she did. ORDDU: Rapunzel's prince could also be involved in all this and end up trying to talk Rapunzel out of her plans to get revenge--or else maybe he would offer to help her get revenge. Either way, there are some interesting possibilities that don't seem to have been considered.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "I would have said the same thing when Beauty and the Beast came out." But that story didn't need to be changed much from it's original in order for it to have an active protagonist instead of a passive one. Belle's decisions change the course of the story. In the traditional version, Rapunzel is pretty much just the macguffin that everyone is fighting over. She's no more a "character" than the Maltese Falcon or the Lost Ark. She doesn't do anything. Disney is at least trying to make her an active character whose actions and choices affect the story.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>I just wanna' say that if the time for fairy tales and princesses is past<< The time for fairy tales and princesses is not past. The time for women who just sit waiting for the world to come to them and who do not have the capacity to save themselves is.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: In the MODERN world, maybe. But I even in fairy tales I think there's a lot of confusion about just how passive the traditional heroines are. A lot things happen on subtle level that go over people's heads. I don't mind if Disney makes Rapunzel into someone who stands up for herself. I just don't like it when they go too far and change her into a tomboy who uses her hair as a lasso and a whip. That's just so far from what the original Rapunzel is like.
Originally Posted By Y Tywysog Disney One interesting irony is that at the same time that Disney is downplaying the "fairy tale princess" aspect of the Rapunzel project... Walt Disney Imagineering is currently working on a number of fairy tale princess attractions, for example at DCA one of the most anticipated attractions is The Little Mermaid ride that will open next year and at Walt Disney World, there are plans to renovate Fantasyland, and basically all of it is Princess-centric.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: I know what you mean, duckling. My sisters and I were just commenting on this very same thing earlier today. It would seem that the movie making aspect of the company is out of touch with the theme park end of things. Very odd, indeed! ORWEN: Well, I just think this whole thing about fairy tales being obsolete for this day and age is a myth, anyway! I mean, it's the timeless quality about them that makes them relevant for ANY age! It's just that there are a few old toads out there who can't appreciate them so they go around claiming that there isn't room for them in modern society. But that's where they're wrong. You be amazed at how many closeted fairytale lovers there are out there!!
Originally Posted By joe80x86 I don't really thing it's about fairy tale princesses. But I have not seen PatF and will wait for the DVD and even then I am really not all that excited. We are getting the DVD more for my daughter then me or mom. I can't comment on the quality of the movie but the previews just don't make it seem special, they don't excite. That tied with the in park stuff they have done just doesn't excite. Of course I am not very excited about Rapunzel either, and knowing a bit about the story makes me even less excited. Now I am very exited about Toy Story 3.
Originally Posted By basil fan Just to show that there are different opinions out there, I'd like to mention that my sister, a huge Disney fan and an adult, thought PATF was only pretty good, mainly becuase it wasn't princess-y *enough* She felt Tiana spent too much time as a frog and un-ballgowned. The Tarzan Equation <a href="http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/disney/tarzan.html" target="_blank">http://www.whatsitsgalore.com/...zan.html</a>
Originally Posted By Y Tywysog Disney Yeah, and now Disney has shelved "The Snow Queen", which is a film I definitely look forward to seeing, although it will probably be a long time. Still I'm kind of glad they've pulled it for now, because then there is less of a chance they'll mess it up. Plus maybe it's better not to have too many fairy tale movies so close together (the early Disney renaissance being an exception) for example Snow White (1937), Cinderella (1950) and Sleeping Beauty (1959) were made about a decade apart from each other. After Sleeping Beauty it was another 30 years before another fairy tale was made... this was based on an idea back then that fairy tales weren't what the public wanted to see... but if they had decided to do a fairy tale, say in the early 1970s, they probably would have messed it up and made it some sort of Disney fractured fairy tale parody.... fortunately that never happened... although there was a 30 year waiting period between fairy tales, I have to say, I would rather Disney take a break from fairy tales than do them and mess them up. Imagine if Disney had messed up Beauty and the Beast... they would have had to live with that without being given another chance
Originally Posted By mawnck If you want to see a fabulously animated "Snow Queen," there was one done in the late 50s, in Russia: <a href="http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9901E2DA1230EF3ABC4C52DFB266838B679EDE" target="_blank">http://movies.nytimes.com/movi...8B679EDE</a> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Queen-Voices-Sandra-Dee/dp/B0006HU2X2" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Que...006HU2X2</a> The transfer on the English DVDs is not very good. But the price is right. I've even spotted various scruddy editions of it in dollar stores. The flick's biggest claim to fame nowadays is that Hayao Miyazaki has declared it one of his major influences. The character of Gerta IS the original Miyazaki heroine. English voice by Sandra Dee! Tommy Kirk, Paul Frees and June Foray are also in the English dub. There was a soundtrack album with a FABULOUS cover: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Snow-Queen-Original-Soundtrack-Sandra-Dee-STEREO-LP_W0QQitemZ160404868165QQ" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Snow-Q...868165QQ</a>
