Originally Posted By CTXRover <<In the future, Universal is going to get more of my Florida vacation $$$ than Disney. And Disney can fully take the blame for losing my business>> Its actually quite ironic the discussions we have here. I'm a pretty big fan of both Disney and Universal(more Disney) and frequent fan sites of both quite frequently. On Universal sites there are very similar posts as this one, but the complete opposite. They go on and on about how cheap Universal has become by shutting off parts of its attractions during the off-season because they cost too much to maintain, cutting back on entertainment or letting parts of their attractions and parks literally fall apart, etc. and that until they actually add something worth while they will be spending more time at Disney. Disney is still the standard. There is still an enormous amount of high quality things at Disney, even with the imperfections. Beyond the great "Early birds" deal Universal is currently offering, tickets, food and merchandise are just as expensive as Disney. Water and sodas at vending carts are actually more than at Disney last time I was there. Both are out to make as much $$ as they can. Fortunately for Disney, they have the bigger bank and we tend to see more refurbs and new attractions than Universal ever seems to get.
Originally Posted By idleBrain But it still boils down to quality. Perceived value and all that jazz. Universal's food quality is better, the merchandise offerings are often more varied, and the hotel rooms are newer and cleaner. (Housekeeping at WDW this past trip was a joke. I doubt more than 5 min was spent on the room.) I won't disagree about attractions needing rehab work as much as Disney's. That aspect of both resorts is unfortunately true. And overall costs are tend to even out at the end of the day. But the level of quality being offered is not equal. Far from it. Disney has been cutting corners for the past several years, to the point of cutting back too much. The quality is suffering. WDW, to me, is just not worth the prices they're charging now.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<A friend I trust took a walk through and had a good look around the interior paint job... he said it looks just awful and - like you said - cheap. Blue everywhere, apparently.>> That's basically it ... inside and out. Blue everywhere in a few different hues. So my feeing is they slapped some paint on it. So what? It just feels like a typical (cheap) WDW redo. And, I'll repeat myself, but if WDI could create an amazing futuristic seabase pavilion 20 years ago, they should be able to do much more amazing things today. Projections of Nemo and pals may work, but that doesn't mean that other solutions wouldn't have worked better. EPCOT Center was all about optimism and doing things on a grand stage. The past decade has been all about making it a much smaller, less special place.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That is precisely what Epcot Ops wanted to do with The Living Seas. It was only push-back from certain quarters of WDI that we now have the seacabs back and have a very popular LCP attraction at Seabase Alpha.>> And that's why Epcot (and all of the Fla parks sans DAK) need new exec teams. When you have beancounters running the show, you aren't likely to wind up with creative successes. It seems like every WDW exec's answer to reaching a quota/number/figure is by cutting quality. If that means shuttering attractions, so be it. Whoever actually thought the Seas should be shut down has NO business working in the entertainment business. Period, Lee. <<There are a lot of little fixes coming to Epcot over the next few years and a couple of big ones that will help return some quality to the park.>> Yes. Epcot needs so much work (like all the Florida parks) because so much was taken away/allowed to get stale/fell apart during Eisner's slash-and-burn last decade at the company. I truly hope the 'big' things you talk about for Epcot are coming and soon.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<BOT's friend is correct. The new interior paint job lacks the nuances and details which typically define Disney. The walls seem "flat" and visually bland. And as CTXR stated, the interior is now too dark, which makes the space seem even smaller.>> Exactly. I was trying to figure out if I had grown into the typical XXXXXL WDW guest when in the Seas. I then realized that between the paint and the queue set up for DUUUUUDDDEE Talk, that the place now felt cramped. <<Yeah, let's ratchet up the feelings of confinement of being in an overgrown pressurized tin can sitting on the ocean floor. Turtle Talk with Crush's theatre is basically a broom closet, so let's keep the claustrophobic continuity flowing throughout the pavilion, right?>> Yeah, but you must admit that mural of Nemo's pals (looks like a giant decal to me) really livens up the place ;-)
Originally Posted By leemac <<Turtle Talk with Crush's theatre is basically a broom closet>> That is about to change too. The Seas won't be finished when The Seas with Nemo & Friends is unveiled next month.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Thankfully most guests think there is sufficient quality already there for them to enjoy their vacation.>> Most guests still think they can catch the monorail to Universal. Most guests think they can step in front of a moving bus and because it's Disney they'll magically be OK. Most guests think it's OK for their brats to do anything (including defacating in resort pools ... I've had three of those in four days here). So, I wouldn't expect guests to realize that things used to be better and could be if Disney stopped cutting corners on everything. <<I foolishly went to CityWalk last night for the first time in 10 years (thinking there might be some good food options) and after a brief walk-around, being harrassed by strange street performers and teenagers and having my eardrums blistered by the excessive noise I happily got back in my car and drove up to Old Town Pasadena.>> You should have gone to Tony Roma's. They have great ribs ... oh, salad for you! It's where one of my WDI pals treated me for dinner a few weeks ago (not on the company account, so no one's gonna out him that way!). I love CityWalk in Hollywood and Orlando. Yeah, it's loud. But it's vibrant. It's alive with people having a good time. Compare that to the graveyards that was Pleasure Island. <<I'm very thankfully I never feel like that at Disney. Disney is still the standard. That hasn't changed.>> Not for lack of trying. Eisner and now it appears his successor seems intent on making the company another 'brand' on the marketplace. <<You think there isn't enough quality for you then pick another destination.>> I've had a few Disney execs (maybe even your friends) tell me the same thing. As they've made huge sums of money while lowering quality. No, I'd say if you love Disney you stick with them and push for change however you can. Many parks and WDI execs need to be replaced, not the fans who were conditioned to expect only the best from Disney. You're using the same old tired line that people who don't like our bumpkin prez use 'You don't like it? Move to Canada or Mexico ... or Venezuela.' You know that only allows the problem to continue and worsen, when good people give up and resign themselves to things. <<Between the new Canada movie, the Seas and adding Three Cabs animation to the Mexico attraction there is plenty to smile about.>> Those are all very small changes. Also, very late ones. Disney can't make a new Canada (or China) films more than once in 25 years? Those things should be swapped out every 5-6 MAXimum. Oh, and let's not forget Imagination, which apparently is getting another token bone. <<Thankfully there are still people at WDI that believe Epcot can be a mix of the old and new. I'm grateful for that. Chuck SSE into the mix and the next few years can be very interesting for the park as it reaches 25.>> I myself wonder if anyone at WDI truly has a vision for what Epcot should be in its next 25 years. I wonder if they can actually plan ahead ... years ahead, so that things are fresh and don't get stale. I wonder ... a lot.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Its actually quite ironic the discussions we have here. I'm a pretty big fan of both Disney and Universal(more Disney) and frequent fan sites of both quite frequently. On Universal sites there are very similar posts as this one, but the complete opposite. They go on and on about how cheap Universal has become by shutting off parts of its attractions during the off-season because they cost too much to maintain, cutting back on entertainment or letting parts of their attractions and parks literally fall apart, etc. and that until they actually add something worth while they will be spending more time at Disney. >> And you know why they do this? Because they've watched WDW get away with it for a decade now. If the leader can drop quality in a HUGE way and the people show up, why should Uni not do likewise?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "EPCOT Center was all about optimism and doing things on a grand stage. The past decade has been all about making it a much smaller, less special place." Sad but true. But the philistine in me loves Soarin'
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>It is a solid C-ticket and has been targeted as such. A good C but definitely a C.<< Leemac, that is exactly what we gripe about here... EPCOT should NOT be about solid "C" rides... but about cutting edge technology rides/presentations that knock our socks off. It should be "E" or as you put it, solid "D"s at the very least, in the Future World area.
Originally Posted By irishfan Mine, Mine, Mine....the seagulls have arrived! <a href="http://www.mousetimes.com/wdwpictorials/09_22_06/im000027.html" target="_blank">http://www.mousetimes.com/wdwp ictorials/09_22_06/im000027.html</a>
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Mine! Mine! My picture about that was posted several days ago in my mini report from the MK/EPCOT.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 The only thing good at Epcot Center right now is The Land Pavillion.
Originally Posted By leemac The seagulls are the same sculpt as being made for the Subs lagoon at DL except here they will cry out as monorails go past!
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I always thought they said "Mike! Mike! Mike! Mike!" in an Aussie dialect.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>That is precisely what Epcot Ops wanted to do with The Living Seas. It was only push-back from certain quarters of WDI that we now have the seacabs back and have a very popular LCP attraction at Seabase Alpha.<< Unbelievable. (You are not, their POV) >>Chuck SSE into the mix and the next few years can be very interesting for the park as it reaches 25.<< I think SSE needs some work, but I'm hoping from after the initial ascent (w/ the idiot proofing) to the top will only get minor updates with cleaning. I'd much rather see that initial ascent, the entire descent, and the post show see complete changeover. Any chance you can give me any go-rah-yeah excitement Lee?
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Whoever actually thought the Seas should be shut down has NO business working in the entertainment business. Period, Lee.<< Yep.
