Originally Posted By SuperDry Oops - I could have sworn that I double-checked to make sure this was a WE thread before responding to MPierce. My mistake. My apologies to everyone for polluting the WDW section.
Originally Posted By Socrates When you talk about "The Government", exactly what do you mean? In Ohio, the smoking ban was a state-wide ballot initiative. Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad At the risk of rebuttal I have to say that I'm for the smoking ban in public places. Yes you have a right to smoke if you want to. But, I also have a right not to have to smell it. I have a right to pass gas but most smokers would not want me to repeatedly do it and blow it over to their dinner table. My daughter has asthma and cigarette smoke is one of her triggers. I think she should be able to walk around in public without having to carry a gas mask to breath. I don't care if you choose to smoke, just do it in your house or your car or in your cigar bar.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt My Dad actually gave up smoking his pipe for the week were at the Parks. He said all the guests in the "smoking section" looked sad & pathetic
Originally Posted By vbdad55 >> -- heck in Chicago the mayor passed an ordinance banning Foie Gras. << Please tell me you are joking VBDAD! I wish I was -- took 2 years to get repealed <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/us/15liver.html?ref=dining" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05...f=dining</a>
Originally Posted By MPierce >> <<< I suppose you have access to the complete story of Joe Padilla also. >>> When did I ever claim to have such access? << Well my mistake. I just assumed you knew something special about this terrorist that the rest of us didn't know. >> For the purposes of this discussion, one is one too many. The President should not have the power to jail US citizens in isolation indefinitely without charges or access to a judge or lawyer. << One terrorist that the government tried to use the Patriot Act upon, and was unsuccessful. Care to tell folks where old Jose Padilla is today. I still wish they would have settled this one once, and for all and gone before the Supreme Court with this case. Should terrorist attempting to commit acts against the USA, and it's citizens, have the same rights as citizens. <<< At what time was this act overturned by the Supreme Court. >>> >> You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. At no time did I claim that this had happened. << I very well could. I just assumed with my problem with reading comprehension you had to know more about this case than I do. I naturally assumed that someone would have challenged it in front of the Supreme Court, and such an un-American act would surely be overturned by now. I guess I was wrong again. You can have opinions all day long about what power the President should or should not have. It doesn't matter the least bit We have a Government in place that decides that.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Oops - I could have sworn that I double-checked to make sure this was a WE thread before responding to MPierce. My mistake. My apologies to everyone for polluting the WDW section. << It would seem you have a reading comprehension problem now.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I wish I was -- took 2 years to get repealed <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05...f=dining" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05...f=dining</a> << When you think things can't get crazier, something like this comes up. Thanks for sharing VBDAD.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt >> -- heck in Chicago the mayor passed an ordinance banning >> It thought this was a joke
Originally Posted By Socrates Don't know how pertinent this is, but I thought it was an interesting story: <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0220/p02s01-usju.html" target="_blank">http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/...sju.html</a> Socrates "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It thought this was a joke you've seen Illinois politics on the news lately -- in a way it is.... also had transfat oils banned.... we are all over the food and smoking stuff -- but have one giv in prison and another headed for the cell next to him..( one from each party)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I was talking about the $750 billion stimulous package that was just rammed down everybody's throat to begin with. I certainly agree we are in worse shape than we were in, say 2006.>> I believe we are in worse shape all around than at anytime in my life (and you kinda know how long that's been). I don't know how anyone could argue differently (so ... waiting ...) <<Then both of my Senators lied to me.>> A politician lying?!??! NO WAY!??! That never happens in the USA! <<Exactly what is it that bothers you so much in that Bill. I really want to know. Which Freedom have you lost. I am being bery sincere, with my question.>> SuperDry 'splained the heart of my issues with it. None of us have the right to an attorney or against unlawful search and seizure as GUARANTEED by the Constitution of the USA because 'W' acted criminally and the Congress went along like sheep (forget about average Americans who after 9/11 would have given up every right that made us the shining beacon of democracy to the world in some mindless hope of being safe from 'evildoers')... it really starts and stops right there. You don't get to break the Constitution because it suits you or your agenda. You don't get to do so even if you feel it's the only way to protect American lives ... because without our liberties and basic rights we are no better than those who would attack us for having them. This idea we must defeat the 'evildoers' at all costs even if it means we turn our backs on what makes us so special is so vile and repugnant to me ... there's no gray area here. I'd rather be attacked by crazed lunatics from some axis of evil power or terror group then be hauled off under cover because someone in the government has decided I could be a threat (maybe they didn't like a post on a Disney message board and are -- illegally before the Patriot Act -- going to track my ISP and come and get me) ... this way of life is crazy ... and I blame anyone and everyone who allowed such a sickening piece of legislation to pass with such an ironic name. <<Our country is broken because we as Americans were convinced we could live beyond our means with no repercussions. We have Greedy Big Business, and Irresponsible Government to blame for this. BUT the real burden falls on each American that chose this reckless lifestyle.>> I guess, my friend, we are always going to disagree to some extent on this because I feel we have an incredible double standard where government and Big Business can be irresponsible all they want and there are never any repercussions. If I buy a house that's above my means because I was sold on having more -- and pushed into a mortgage that would supposedly grant me that -- and then I default on my credit cards and have my auto repossessed, I would be held to a much higher standard of responsibility. I do have a problem with that. I was all in favor of bailing out Detroit until today, for example. It seemed to make sense that even though the auto industry is in the mess it is in thru terrible management and unions only interested in power that we still needed to protect one industry where we once reigned supreme and still are a top player. What changed my mind? Today I heard that if you averaged GM's losses for 2008 out on a daily basis, they lost $85 million a day! (NBC Nightly News) ... That's staggering. If Joe The Plumber starts his own business and loses $850 a day, we all know he'll go out of business in weeks (if that) and that will be that. No hand outs. No help. Nothing. But in our Bizarro 21st Century America it seems rational to give taxpayer money to a company that loses $85 million a day? How about we take that $85 million a day and give it to people who have lost jobs and homes ... or use it to improve healthcare or education ... or even build a high speed rail line from DL to Vegas (sorry, had to take a shot at the clueless new GOP wonderboy) ... I just look around and it's like I went to sleep and woke up a decade later in a place I no longer recognize. Anyway ... I'm sure Danny Cockerell disagrees with me ;-) Now ... ~Pass the Pixie Dust~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It would seem some folks oppose the USA Patriot ACT, however it would seem even more support it along with the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of our Government. I suggest it's going to take much more than some folks talking bad about it to remove it. Let's wait, and see what the new President has to say. Why not give our Republic a chance to work?>> Guess what? It doesn't matter whether 99% of all Americans supported it (which they certainly do not). It goes against our Constitution. Period. End of discussion. That Patriot Act needs to be pulled out and burned on a ceremonial bonfire ... that would be something to wave the flags over. ~Pass the Pixie Dust~
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer << don't care if you choose to smoke, just do it in your house or your car or in your cigar bar.>> Well here there are limits on that. You cannot smoke in your car if you have children under a certain age. It took awhile for the first citation, but it happened. 2 women were smoking with 6 young children in the car. Remember there are countries out there with more "big brother" helping. Maybe if just maybe companies thought about sustainability and having a diverse consumer base over just pure profits, maybe just maybe we wouldn't be in this hole.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer << don't care if you choose to smoke, just do it in your house or your car or in your cigar bar.>> Well here there are limits on that. You cannot smoke in your car if you have children under a certain age. It took awhile for the first citation, but it happened. 2 women were smoking with 6 young children in the car. Remember there are countries out there with more "big brother" helping. Maybe if just maybe companies thought about sustainability and having a diverse consumer base over just pure profits, maybe just maybe we wouldn't be in this hole.
Originally Posted By dshyates You just don't get it, Spirit. WE HAD TO GET RID OF THOSE FREEDOMS. WE ARE AT WAR. Oh wait, we started the war. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, Huh?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You just don't get it, Spirit. WE HAD TO GET RID OF THOSE FREEDOMS. WE ARE AT WAR. Oh wait, we started the war. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, Huh?>> Yeah ... and when last I checked the rhetoric we were at war to PROTECT those freedoms. You don't protect something by destroying it for its own good. ~Pass the Pixie Dust~
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Why do I feel like the last 8 years was a hybrid of Animal Farm and 1984?
