Originally Posted By avro_imagineer Must be because you miss Thatcher I don't know Bush has good points, he can sometimes eat pretzels right. His dad is ok.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Grrrrrrr, Mark, saying I miss Lady T is a huge insult (but I do miss Tony Blair and I have a soft spot for Gordon Brown - even if he is very unpopular).
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer Notice the tongue (in cheek)! Tony has Leo you have Mikey and Jessica So you've one upped your former PM. Gordon Brown still has time to prove his mettle.
Originally Posted By MPierce VBDAD are you sure that the Patriot Act stomps all over our Constitution? Are you sure that target area's don't have to be designated by a Judge. These are very importat issues, and my point is if the Patriot Act is so unconstitutional how can it still be around after over 7 years? To date can you name Americans that have had their rights infridged on by the Patriot Act. I certainly know of one American terrorist that doesn't like it.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Guess what? It doesn't matter whether 99% of all Americans supported it (which they certainly do not). << Guess what? We are still a nation of laws. >> It goes against our Constitution. Period. End of discussion. << Don't any of you folks get it. We do not write the laws or enforce them. We have branches of Government that do that. What should we do as individuals, pick, and choose which laws we feel are right for us. If the Patriot Act is unconstitutional then our court system will deem it so. We can certainly all have strong opinions on these issues, but at the end of the day the Judicial system decides what is Constitutional, and what is not.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> You just don't get it, Spirit. WE HAD TO GET RID OF THOSE FREEDOMS. WE ARE AT WAR. Oh wait, we started the war. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, Huh? << Everybody keeps shouting loss of freedom, exactly which freedoms have we lost. Find out how many American citizens have been charged under the Patriot act. How many people have lost their freedoms. Everybody loves to throw the concept of lost freedom around because it's a hot button item, but where's the beef. If the Patriot act is so evil why is it still around under a new administration? Why hasn't the mew President made the enforcement of our Constitution priority number one?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Why do I feel like the last 8 years was a hybrid of Animal Farm and 1984? << Because you hate George W. Bush.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Don't know how pertinent this is, but I thought it was an interesting story: <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/...sju.html" target="_blank">http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/...sju.html</a> Socrates "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." << Makes me wonder why no one will take them.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> You just don't get it, Spirit. WE HAD TO GET RID OF THOSE FREEDOMS. WE ARE AT WAR. Oh wait, we started the war. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, Huh? << What war did we start when the Patriot act was signed into law in 2001. I must have missed that one.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>We do not write the laws or enforce them.<<< Some of us do in other countries. However, the main point of democracy is that the people must hold their leaders accountable. America is not the most free country in the world any longer, far from it. And the Patriot Act is a big part of that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Why hasn't the new President made the enforcement of our Constitution priority number one?<<< Because he has been in office for a matter of weeks and has much to do. This is not perhaps the top priority right now. He has 8 years of crap to clean up as well as current and future urgent issues to deal with.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Some of us do in other countries. However, the main point of democracy is that the people must hold their leaders accountable. << You know what I mean Dave. >> America is not the most free country in the world any longer, far from it. And the Patriot Act is a big part of that. << What freedom have I given up Dave. The Patriot act didn't limit my freedoms Dave, TERRORIST did that.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Because he has been in office for a matter of weeks and has much to do. This is not perhaps the top priority right now. He has 8 years of crap to clean up as well as current and future urgent issues to deal with. << I don't recall him even mentioning the Patriot act on his run to the Presidency. He's had time to present a stimulous bill, a budget, designate a date for withdrawl from Iraq, decide to close Gitmo, make numerous political appointments. You would think the Constitution, and protecting American citizens freedoms would be right up there.
Originally Posted By dshyates MPierce, would you consider asking for the financil transaction records of 1 million American visitors to Las Vegas abuse? What about using the Patriot Act to increase the Power of the Justice Department in appointing Federal Judges? Or using the Patriot Act to remove homeless people fram an area of town? An internal audit showed that the FBI has abused the Patriot Act over 1000 times. Just take a look at this list and then make up your mind? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act_controversy" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...troversy</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Gloom and doom all you want. Personally, I'm looking forward to buying points at DVC's Epcot Paris resort.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hey Trippy! Its good to see ya, but it seems as if WE has leaked into this thread, so you may want to steer clear. We do have delightful thread on killing Seagulls though.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <Hey Trippy! Its good to see ya, but it seems as if WE has leaked into this thread, so you may want to steer clear.>> That's OK. I stopped reading when it started to turn.
Originally Posted By MPierce I tell you what Dave you give me a link to a legitimate source, and I will investigate it personally. Every law we have on the books is open for abuse by authorities. Nothing new there at all. What is up for debate is the abuse of power with the intent of circumventing the law by invoking the Patriot Act, and is this act Constitutional or not. All I'm looking for is one innocent person that had their rights violated randomly for no reason at all. Have abuses occured in the name of the Patriot Act, probably. Will abuses occur in the future, probably. We are human beings doing what we do best, sometimes that means messing up. It still boils down to we are a nation of laws. We can debate right, and wrong all day, and all night. The fact is we do not know the content of each action brought about concerning the Patriot Act, nor will we ever know all the facts of a case unless we are the Judge. That's why the Spreme Court is so important rather than rule by mob. Leave it up to the Supreams Baby Love.
