Originally Posted By iluvdisneyland "Of course the young ones will be in custodial and not be performers." Because somehow being in Custodial Guest Services makes them less of an essential Cast Member.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Oh my word the barbershop quartet? How can you let them go and still call it main street usa? The dapper dans are pure main street. Letting them go is just plain nuts. Unless the dapper dans themselves asked to leave or something like that, otherwise, i agree, it doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Because somehow being in Custodial Guest Services makes them less of an essential Cast Member.<<< No offence. ILuv, but being an entertainer requires particular high level skills and years of training. It's not an "entry level" job like custodial is (in other words, entertainment is not something that "just anybody" can do). As far as "essential", obviously Disney considers NO entertainment to be of utmost importance (well, except for short girls in Mickey costumes of course), considering all the firings I've seen in Florida over the years, and now Tokyo (they are currently getting rid of 10 plus entertainment groups in the next couple of months, just in time for the DisneySea 5th anniversary). So, sad as I am, I'm not at all surprised about the Dapper Dans. It wouldn't surprise me if they WERE doing the "fire the old, expensive guys and bring in cheaper talent" thing. They are famous for those kind of semi-unethical and certainly underhanded business decisions. I've seen it a million times myself. Oh well, the Dans can always try to audition for Hong Kong...I heard their version is quite popular.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I know this is horrible news, but if the Dans have been fired and re-hired before as Darkbeer claims, perhaps just some notes to Disney will suffice.
Originally Posted By ssturgeo I will write a note, just in case it will do some good. Such sad news...they are part of Disneyland. I know change, growth is necessary, but they also need to remember that escape to that familar place of our childhood is part of the attraction also. What we want to share with firends, children, grandchildren. The Disney magic is not trying to be a modern theme park that I can visit anywhere across the U.S. If I want younger musicians/singers...I can walk right over to DCA. As usual Darkbeer, thanks for keeping us update.
Originally Posted By iluvdisneyland "No offence. ILuv, but being an entertainer requires particular high level skills and years of training. It's not an "entry level" job like custodial is (in other words, entertainment is not something that "just anybody" can do)." Ya... who needs Custodial any way. So long as we have some good entertainment, no one will notice the filthiness of the park. And I would disagree with the "just anybody" could be in Custodial attitude. It takes a certain mindset and a certain devotion that one would find present in a professional.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>Ya... who needs Custodial any way. So long as we have some good entertainment, no one will notice the filthiness of the park.<<< That's certainly not what I wrote, I'm sorry that you read it that way. >>>And I would disagree with the "just anybody" could be in Custodial attitude. It takes a certain mindset and a certain devotion that one would find present in a professional.<<< It's an entry level job, that was the only point I was making. Anyway, see it however you like. You mentioned working in theater tech jobs or something like that, right? Is that a job that anyone with no prior skills can apply for and easily get? Don't be so defensive, bro.
Originally Posted By Mr X I'm a little confused on re-reading though. Are you trying to say that custodial requires specialized skills and years of training?
Originally Posted By iluvdisneyland I know that's not what you're *trying* to say, but so often us "entry level" Cast Members who are just as essential get snubbed like that by people who think they're more than us. It takes years to learn enough about the Vending operation in order to run it; it takes a long time to know every nook and cranny of your attraction; etc etc. And yes, I am in technical theatre. And yes I would say it requires training. Years? That's a bit long when pretty much any monkey can hang a light.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Because somehow being in Custodial Guest Services makes them less of an essential Cast Member.<< Unless they can sing, then the answer is yes. After the layoff, when the need for more custodials rises, they will be easier to replace than a performer.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>So, sad as I am, I'm not at all surprised about the Dapper Dans. It wouldn't surprise me if they WERE doing the "fire the old, expensive guys and bring in cheaper talent" thing. They are famous for those kind of semi-unethical and certainly underhanded business decisions. I've seen it a million times myself.<< This, sadly, has become a common practice in the Fortune 500.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I know that's not what you're *trying* to say, but so often us "entry level" Cast Members who are just as essential get snubbed like that by people who think they're more than us.<< This is not aboout "who is more". If my original vocation example offended you, I apologize. All I was trying to say is that large companies in general mask/hide age discrimination firings and layoffs of highly skilled older workers (who are all to often replaced by younger, cheaper and somewhat less skilled younger and cheaper workers) by firing younger "unskilled" workers, who are eaier to replace later.
Originally Posted By HRM Thanks for clarifying the Rod Miller situation for us Darkbeer, I hope he is doing well... I remember being at Disneyland as a kid and wanting to see and hear him play the piano. He is definitely missed. I enjoy the Dapper Dans as well; but there is always other sides to the story. I was wondering if you, or any other well informed person on the LP Boards knows any of the background on this and could post the info here. Anything is better than assumptions and accusations. I'm sure Matt Ouimet didn't wake up one morning and say... "Geeze let's save some money by cutting entertainment cost so that we can redo the Pirates attraction..." By the Way... ILuv.... good to see your still at DLR... and thanks for sticking up for the "entry level" CM... too often that position is treated like a throw-away spot... some of those CM's wind up staying a while and contributing quite a bit to DLR. I didn't know the Osmond's sang at DLR; Wow, you learn something new everyday at LP!! )
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA From a strictly business perspective, how 'worth it' is it to have these four guys at Disneyland as 'The Dapper Dans'? This is all conjecture, as I have no real numbers to go on. Would each member of that group, given their seniority, be making $40,000 a year? 4 members x $40K = 160,000.00 a year for their salaries. Plus the cost of health care, costumes et al. $160K doesn't seem that expensive to me... Does Disneyland micro-manage every aspect of the operation and decide that they could find other, 'alternate' barbershop quartets to come in to Disneyland and perform? Yes, they do. So Disneyland gets another group, who's willing to come in for $20,000 each p/year -- they've just saved $80,000.00. Or they get two groups to alternate, and they're all 'Independent Contractors.' And maybe, with a new barbershop quartet, the guests don't really notice the difference anyway, right? It's a pretty hardline approach, but nothing really new. Back in the 'good ol' days' in the late 80s, I recall them laying off much of the live entertainment -- SAK Theater, The Future World Brass, the Canadian Brass Band, and many of the World Showcase live groups. They did end up hiring many of them back at a lower rate of pay. And you know what? Many of those groups took the gig -- because, as an entertainer, a gig's a gig. And here's the rub, folks. Anyone who is an entertainer knows that gigs are just that -- gigs. Some gigs are short [one day], and if you're lucky you get a long-term gig. You work a 'gig' for 10 or more years in the same place? [ie: working as a Dapper Dan in Disneyland], you consider yourself a really lucky entertainer. But on the flipside, Disneyland doesn't owe anyone a job -- and I guess if they feel the Dapper Dans are expendible, maybe it's time to see something else.
Originally Posted By HRM >>Anyone who is an entertainer knows that gigs are just that -- gigs. Some gigs are short [one day], and if you're lucky you get a long-term gig. You work a 'gig' for 10 or more years in the same place? [ie: working as a Dapper Dan in Disneyland], you consider yourself a really lucky entertainer.<< Well put, and very true. Nothing last forever. In a way, we should be thanking Disneyland for having these wonderful professionals entertaining us for so long. ºoº
Originally Posted By hopemax >I didn't know the Osmond's sang at DLR; Wow, you learn something new everyday at LP!! You can see them in their television debut in a "Disneyland After Dark" segment from "The Wonderful World of Color," which also featured the Dapper Dans. They used to replay it on the Disney Channel when they had Vault Disney.
Originally Posted By pecos bill Arent the Trash Can Drummers all from the U.S.C. Band? So now they are going to hire some kids from college to do the Dan's job, and let nearly fifty years of tradition go to the chopping block. Hopefully the public will speak up and alter this turn of events.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Speaking as an infrequent visitor, I don't much care which 'dans' are there - anybody standing in the striped suit on main street and singing barbershop is a 'dan' to my eyes - and ears. It's not so important that they be specific individuals, only that they're there, and they're entertaining.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <I don't much care which 'dans' are there - anybody standing in the striped suit on main street and singing barbershop is a 'dan' to my eyes - and ears.> gadzuux, I would imagine most guest would feel the same way you do. Also about 'a piano player on Main Street' -- it doesn't have to be a specific person, just a piano player.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice ^^Mr. Alice's piano teacher has a photo of her with Rod Miller... She's playing his piano while he watches and smiles. Unrelated to the overall subject, but it IS an awesome photo and she it was an exciting moment for her. (She rivals and may well surpass Rod's skills... Just an awesome 'natural' pianist. Don't shoot me, you guys... she really is great! ;-) On topic... I hate this news on the Dapper Dans. I hope the powers that be change their minds.
