Originally Posted By LPFan22 I personally spoke with one of the Dapper Dans performers today and was told the contract has been extended to April 8th. This Saturday, March 25, will not be the last day. I was also informed that the Dapper Dans will always be present on Main Street. The current members, however, will have to audition for a new act.
Originally Posted By PirateJohn >>But Mr. X. if Disneyland wants to re-audition for 'The Dapper Dans' it is certainly their option. I don’t feel that those 4 current guys should be coddled or treated with special care just because they’ve been there. Let's not kid ourselves. If Disneyland is re-auditioning the existing Dans, it's not because they really want to find better talent out there. It's because they want to find LESS talented performers and slash wages.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <It's because they want to find LESS talented performers and slash wages.> And Disneyland has every right to do that. Those 4 guys currently playing 'The Dapper Dans' aren't the only guys who can sing barbershop quartet music.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <S.P.E.B.S.Q.S.A.> I was in that briefly too. In high school I was in a barbershop octet (two on each part). We had our own weird acronym that played on the fact that we were eight (I think it ended with "x2") but the full acronym escapes me now.
Originally Posted By PirateJohn >>And Disneyland has every right to do that. Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA PirateJohn, your take on this is that Disneyland just holds onto the current Dapper Dans until, they retire? They die? What is Disney's 'right thing to do' here?
Originally Posted By coaster53 Guys, Let's call this situation what it really is. It is the result of some suit, tie, or creative type who has a "new" way of doing things. A person who has to justify their job, and decides to make changes to existing product for the sake of change. The creative type is not creating a new show. They are taking an existing product and attaching themselves to it because it is easier than creating something new. Doesn't matter that the guests love the current cast, doesn't matter that the material works and has worked for years, doesn't matter that the current show could run for years and people would still enjoy it as is. Just look at the Pirates update. Why? It is easier than creating something new. Fix something that doesn't need to be fixed. If the current Dans were so awful, why have the lasted this long? Why does the material still work? Why did all of us feel the need to respond to this topic? It isn't about money or retirement. It is about a lack of creativity in the entertainment department at Disneyland. Add a new group or a new show to Main Street. Complement the existing content if there is such a need, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, just so you can try to keep "Your" job, creative type.
Originally Posted By Mr X <<<<It's because they want to find LESS talented performers and slash wages.> And Disneyland has every right to do that.<<< I strongly disagree. Put this in any other context in America, and you've got a great case for age discrimination. Disney gets away with it by claiming some kind of vague "show business casting" argument, when in this case it's nothing of the sort. Sure, in the casting of Snow White, they have certain arguments that are valid (the girl gets too many wrinkles, or puts on 30 pounds, whatever)... But, for Disney to claim this argument for their musicians, no. They can't go there. They have cast plenty of aged, unyouthful musicians in the past and will continue to do so as it suits them. But, when they want to save a buck, they claim they've decided to go for a more "youthful" group. Age discrimination. Pure and simple. >>>Those 4 guys currently playing 'The Dapper Dans' aren't the only guys who can sing barbershop quartet music.<<< Those 4 are the ones they hired, and unless Disney wants to argue that they are not doing their jobs properly (and I happen to know that is NOT the argument, nor has it ever been regarding any other groups going through this discrimination that I'm familiar with), then they are simply engaging in an entertainment related loophole in order to discriminate on the basis of age and advanced salary. No, Jim, they don't have "every right to do that". They are doing it because they can get away with it, as corporations so often do until they are stopped by force of law.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Bear in mind that the contract with the current group of Dapper Dans is ending. Disneyland has met all obligations in regards to that contract. In all this I have seen no evidence that Disneyland is "firing" the Dans. What is happening has happened in the past, and will happen again. It is what happens when a contract ends. I have always enjoyed the Dapper Dans, particularly the present group. (Which is NOT, incidently, that same group all the time. Indeed, one long time member left a while ago under his own steam.) I hope that after casting is conducted, that the Dapper Dans (whoever they may be) will be just as entertaining and memorable as the fine musicians we now enjoy-- just as the present group is as well regarded as those who were performing on Main Street before their time.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>>It is what happens when a contract ends.<<< Not true. More often than not, Disney simply renews the contract for whoever is in the group. Then, once in a blue moon, they find some reason to save a few bucks and try to avoid calling it age discrimination. I've seen it over and over (and, to be honest, the quality in general has gone downhill as a result...not that any sharp pencil boys would really care about the Disney experience or anything).
Originally Posted By coaster53 It isn't a money thing. The new Dans will be paid the same wages as the departing Dans. That is the way that their union contract works. No performer is paid a high wage based on years of service. The idea of the contract being up is a false one as well. Disney, by "Closing" the show, ends the contract. They are only required to give a two weeks notice to the performers. This is not about age, or wage. This has happened many times. It is a creative group that has to make its mark and make changes for changes sake. They are usually threatened by the presence of exisisting performers. Instead of dealing with them, directing them or working with their years of knowledge, they "close" the show, they audition everyone, and weed out those they don't want to deal with. That is what is happening. The show will "reopen" with new sequences or songs, many will seem just like the old routine. There will be a few new faces, and a few old faces, and some creative type can then say to their supervisor, "Look at how I "fixed" the Dapper Dans." "What can I "fix" next?"
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <No, Jim, they don't have "every right to do that".> Well, yeah they do, Mr. X. That's why they're doing it.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA coaster53, the scenario you describe is exactly what happened to the Christmas Carolers around 1997 or so. Ended the contract, re-auditioned everyone, but they had a whole different approach that year, with a more wacky, yuk-yuk group, using microphones in front of the Christmas tree, and singing 'All I Want for Christmas is My Two-Front Teeth' and so forth. The new version lasted one season I beleive. Now, they're back to the regular Christmas Caroler group. Mr. X I can't figure out why you get so hot about this subject. Actors and Performers don't have any more rights than any other worker.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I find it odd that the scenario presented in post #130 is first described as "once in a blue moon," and then with the words "I've seen it over and over." (P.S. The Dickens Carolers this year were doing "hot jazz" licks and doo wop numbers. On Main Street. In Victorian dress. Sigh...)
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <(P.S. The Dickens Carolers this year were doing "hot jazz" licks and doo wop numbers. On Main Street. In Victorian dress. Sigh...)> Neat, huh?
Originally Posted By DlandDug Yeah Jim, there's nothing like a close harmony arrangement of "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" to put you in that Main Street mood...
Originally Posted By coaster53 Actually Jim, the carolers you speak of are at Knott's Berry Farm. I have seen them there for about eight years now. They left for the other park the year the "yuk yuks" moved onto main street. The current group is a contract group. I believe they are the same group that has been performing at DCA and GCH for the past few years. If you want the feel of the original main street carolers then head over to Knotts this Christmas.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Actually Jim, the carolers you speak of are at Knott's Berry Farm.> I beleive that's correct, coaster53. Many of those Disney carolers did create a new group and head to Knott's. And, interestingly enough, my wife and I sang in that contracted out group at The Disneyland Hotel, the first year it was put together -- also made up of some of the former Disney carolers.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder If it matters at this point, contractually, Disney is indeed legally within their rights in this situation. It should go without saying, but being legally correct is not always the publically popular move, in oh-so-many different types of subjects.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Man, I hate it when I do that. Publicly, not publically. Sheesh.
