Originally Posted By dsnymomi2 It's funny. people say they don't like it because it's not like Disneyland yet if it were, they would complain it's too much like Disneyland, not it's "own park" DCA I love and it rounds out the whole Disneyland experience I think.People need to enjoy the park for what it is. There are alot of great things about it. No it's not just like Disneyland but then again it shouldn't be! Go in there with an open mind and enjoy what the park has to offer instead of finding the negative. What fun is that????
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<It's funny. people say they don't like it because it's not like Disneyland yet if it were, they would complain it's too much like Disneyland, not it's "own park">> See disneymomi2, I have to disagree with you there. I don't think DCA is a very good DISNEY park, period. But, I wouldn't want it to be Disneyland part 2 either. Also, I love Epcot, I love AK, both verrry far from the MK park model as you can get. So for me and I suspect others, that's not the issue. Sure, I think a lot of people DO want it to be like another DL (especially just the avaerage tourist) and why a lot stay away. But, I think most on this board isn't arguing that at all. Yes, they want more Disney ELEMBENTS such as innovation, higer quality of theming and themed rides and etc, but I think most people would've excepted DCA IF it was a more higher class of a park that has stronger theming, more E-tickets and etc. Actually, my biggest beef with the park now is that they ARE trying to change it into a Disneyland 2.0 with all the character stuff and putting in all the Pixar stuff that had nothing to do with the original plans of the park. I want MORE California influence, less Steve Jobs influence if you get what I'm saying. But, they have convinced themsevelves no one is interested in the theme of California and has COMPLETELY dropped it when in fact it was simply the horrible execution of it that bothered most. Changing a park from a realistic/contemporary based park to a fantasy/character based one is big, big mistake IMO. DCA's identity is becoming more and more lost as time goes on. At this rate, in 5 years, you're not going to know you are suppose to be in California or a Pixar theme park. But, just another opinion by me from a long line of them .
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> No it's not just like Disneyland but then again it shouldn't be! << You likely mirror the mentality of the people responsible for DCA. Again, we're looking at a problem that's related to attitude and philosophy, NOT money and economics. In light of that, the DisCo could have allocated a larger budget to the development of DCA and it still would have been full of mediocrity.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> But, they have convinced themsevelves no one is interested in the theme of California and has COMPLETELY dropped it when in fact it was simply the horrible execution of it that bothered most. << Just goes to show you, WorldDisney (and I know you'll love me for saying this), but people's judgment and decisionmaking skills are extremely CRUCIAL in the outcome of a project. I think Mistake No. 1 in DCA's planning and development was the choice of theme. However, even a number of people who rate DCA as a dud often give wide latitude to the park's "California" orientation, which I consider way too provincial and restricted. Now I may be wrong and others may be right about this, or visa versa. But it once again illustrates how a project can rise or fall merely on the whims and preferences of the people involved, such as those who attended the DisCo's weekend conference in Aspen several years ago.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>It's funny. people say they don't like it because it's not like Disneyland yet if it were, they would complain it's too much like Disneyland, not it's "own park" DCA I love and it rounds out the whole Disneyland experience I think.People need to enjoy the park for what it is. There are alot of great things about it. No it's not just like Disneyland but then again it shouldn't be! Go in there with an open mind and enjoy what the park has to offer instead of finding the negative. What fun is that????<< So .. let me get this straight .... when I walk through the 30 feet in Mission Tortilla ...... watch Rossie O'Donnel in little video over Boudin bread .. chain link kindergarten seats in the Orange Stinger .. simple flat 70mm film presentations (Golde Dreams) ... one of the ugliest mad mouse coasters to go into any theme park - let alone A DISNEY park ........ and I'm suppose to "open my mind"? So many of these arguments here on LP over 5 years comes down to one thing we every single poster here: Tastes - pardon me. rant over.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Plus .. I don't many of these arguments would take place ...... IF Disney kept their pricing in check with their offerings. 56 bucks for a day in DCA? I don't think so. And it does not matter all the DCA lovers on any board ....... the main stream public has spoken. That's all that matters. And the attendance is the proof. Period. I don't mean to be rude to anyone. I just think it's so ridiculous when I read anything that suggests DCA is fine just the way it is ...... when it is clearly such a mediocre Disney park. sorry if I offend anyone. But I'll never rest on the thought this lousy park deserves any validation for the way it currently is.
Originally Posted By oc_dean edit: Plus .. I don't many of these arguments would take place << Plus .. I don't think many of these arguments would take place ......
Originally Posted By mstaft I think we will know what Matt O and Disney Co really thinks of DCA by what comes next after Monsters. By the 10th year of DCA, the proof should be in the pudding. I believe they will either settle for it being mediocre or they will be working hard at bringing Disney magic to all parts of this park. Time will tell.
Originally Posted By Captain Jack Sparrow I think the biggest thing you have to remember here when comparing DCA to any other park is.... 1.) DCA was scaled back from the beginning and NEVER was given enough money to create Disney quality in many of it's areas. Some areas are very good and some are very weak. Michael Eisner is to blame for this,everything had to have his seal of approval including his dream of a Pier style amusement park.The amount of money that went into DCA was Eisner at his best. Why create a Disney park so cheaply Michael,who was above you to appease????? Where did the paying customers figure into your decisions,could you really fool them? Apparently not Mr.CEO. Disneyland has had to deal with major cut backs as well but, at least had Walt Disney and those that believed in quality, theming and service as priority #1 for many years...before Eisner! Eisner just didn't get it,he got to big for the game.His game. DCA is what it is because of Eisner. I have faith that Matt has fixes for DCA (not just quick fixes),can he get the money...I don't know but, he knows how to fix DCA.I mean come on,many people on these boards have had better ideas than Eisner ever did. I like some ares in DCA. When I look around at the empty restaurants and buildings I can't help but wonder... why leave it like this,where is the Disney magic?Why leave the shell of a building or restaurants with closed signs.Do they not see the damage this causes??? Who is responsible for this? Eisner is,his puppets are....I'm glad a change is coming,DCA deserves so much better,not only as Disneyland's brother, but as a true Disney park with Disney magic,shows,live entertainment,hours that show customers that you are proud of your park. Maybe then could you justify a stand alone price. I will keep going,I like it enough.As someone said earlier in this post,let's see in the next 5 years what happens... no Eisner....now that's a start!! To the ship!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt >So .. let me get this straight .... when I walk through the 30 feet in Mission Tortilla ...... watch Rossie O'Donnel in little video over Boudin bread .. chain link kindergarten seats in the Orange Stinger .. simple flat 70mm film presentations (Golde Dreams) ... one of the ugliest mad mouse coasters to go into any theme park - let alone A DISNEY park ........ and I'm suppose to "open my mind"?< See, it's arguments like these that are so frustrating. Sure, DCA isn't the finest Disney park on the planet but DCA is much more than the attractions listed above. I could pick three or four minor attractions at DL and paint the same picture.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<See, it's arguments like these that are so frustrating. Sure, DCA isn't the finest Disney park on the planet but DCA is much more than the attractions listed above. I could pick three or four minor attractions at DL and paint the same picture.>> Exactly. The problem being is that from a percentage standpoint, DCA suffers from a larger proportion of these "minor attractions" than does Disneyland. And this only hurts their bottom line and public preception.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And this only hurts their bottom line and public preception." Agreed, but unlike the general public Disney "fans" know that there's more to the place than a handful of basic rides and attractions like those mentioned by OC. Everyone of us here knows better than that.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer To me, there is only one real Disney ride, and that is Soarin'. Everything else is off the shelf, from GRR to Screamin', to the Flik's Fun Fair rides. (FYI, Screamin' is a nice roleer coaster, but that is all it is, a roller coaster, unlike coasters like the Matterhorn, Big Thunder and Space Mountain, all of which have been heavely themed by Disney.) Animation is the best Disney attraction (non-ride), then we have a bunch of repeat 3-D movies. IMHO, there isn't too much Disney in DCA.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<IMHO, there isn't too much Disney in DCA.>> Tower of Terror is uniqely Disney. Although, it is way too much thrill without benefit of either an interesting story or theming. I would really like to understand why TOT did nothing to drive the gate attendance though. That would truly be worth knowing.
Originally Posted By Nemo88 Did nothing? DCAs attendance (according to AB) rose 13% the year TOT opened,you call that nothing?!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer I forgot about ToT, I will say that is somewhat of a Disney ride, the one thing that makes me feel it isn't one is the amount of folks that won't ride it due to physical limitations, or just don't like the attraction due to the height/dropping. To me, a Disney ride should be for the entire family, or the vast majority. And I think Soarin' meets that definition.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt “Tower of Terror is uniqely Disney.†I think that it could be argued that Grizzly, Muppets, Bugs 3D, Aladdin, Animation, Golden Dreams and various other lesser features of the park are "Disney" too. I won't contend that DCA isn't lacking, but this whole argument that DCA consists of nothing but carnival rides and 5-minute exhibits about bread and tortilla making is just plain illogical.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<DCAs attendance (according to AB) rose 13% the year TOT opened,you call that nothing?!>> Yes, aided along with deep discounts, park hoppers, etc. It is Disneyland Management itself, saying that TOT did nothing to improve DCA's bottomline. And that is one reason no one is rushing out to throw another $100 million ride into DCA just yet.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>I think that it could be argued that Grizzly, Muppets, Bugs 3D, Aladdin, Animation, Golden Dreams and various other lesser features of the park are "Disney" too.<< See, I find GRR to be very similar to Shipwreck Rapids at SeaWorld, Bigfoot Rapids at Knott's and Roaring Rapids at SFMM. All are slightly different, I prefer Shipwreck Rapids for its theming over the other 3. I don't find it very "Disney" when I can ride basically the same thing in 3 other SoCal parks. As I mentioned earlier, the problem with Muppets and ITTBAB is the fact they wern't original, and all movie based attraction lack the repeatability of actual rides. And I am NOT a fan of Golden Dreams, to me this screams "National Park film", or something I might find on PBS on my TV at home. This is not an attraction for a theme park. The 3-D movies are different and add elements that you can't get by watching at home. Heck, even the early movies at Disneyland delivered something more than just sitting at the local movie theater. CircleVision, and one of the first movie based attraction, Flight to the Moon took the basic movie, and made it a LOT more... something that is seriously lacking in Golden Dreams. This is the first thing they should close down, and replace. And for the Golden Dreams fans, they should take the film and place it on DVD. More than likely, they will make more money selling it by itself, than the additional income it brings DCA.
Originally Posted By Nemo88 Yes, aided along with deep discounts, park hoppers, etc. It is Disneyland Management itself, saying that TOT did nothing to improve DCA's bottomline. And that is one reason no one is rushing out to throw another $100 million ride into DCA just yet. well,lets see. every other year DCA offered parkhoopers,deep discounts,they only rose by 5-7%....yet the year TOT opened,it rose 13%,so even if you put that 7% to the side for discounts etc,TOT still helped overall attendance by 6/7% or so. and are tehy really "rushing" in a big E ticket? TOT opened in 2004,this new E ticket planned for DCA hsant even been approved yet,and probably wont be until they see how Cars does in the box office,which will be this summer...so if they break ground in fall of 2006,the ride wont be open until 2009...that would be 5 years after TOT opened,doesnt sound "rushed" to me...thats bout how often DL used to get thier big E tickets.
