Originally Posted By berol I've been waiting for someone to sneak 'irregardless' into a post. The problem with public statements is we don't know how much of it was trying to create demand and how much of it they genuinely, truly expected. There's no point in publicizing something that doesn't need it which makes me suspect they knew DCA needed it. "Come to Disneyland and get locked out DCA!" wha?! Irregardless, hey! ho! let's go!
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Let's do the Time Warp agaiiiinnnnn.... it's just a jump to the left....<< 2ny, you are more than welcome to cut in on this dance at any time...!
Originally Posted By berol "They clearly stated they built it for a projected attendance, and then did so." I've found that to be a good point, tho.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy "They clearly stated they built it for a projected attendance, and then did so." None of the Disney parks worldwide met attendance projections in 2001, so does that mean they all failed?
Originally Posted By jonvn "but rather on what is public record as stated by representatives of the Walt Disney Company" Such as... "I prefer to rely on what has been issued by the Company" Such as... "I have personally witnessed." Yes, eyeballing the turnstyles tells one a lot. "I attended the seminars" And you apparently did not understand them. Did you honestly expect for them to build a park that was not designed to hold the potential amount of people that was possible? Do you have any idea what capacity planning means? "They clearly stated they built it for a projected attendance" Which was what? And what was that projected figure, how was it determined, and by how much was it missed and why? You seem to be in the know on all this. Go ahead and tell me. "Rather, they made statements and took actions that in retrospect make it very clear that DCA has been a major financial disappointment " Same questions. Please. You don't know this stuff. They do. They aren't telling. You can claim all you want all day long, but without any sort of real information, it's simply devoid of content.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>None of the Disney parks worldwide met attendance projections in 2001, so does that mean they all failed?<< Ah, the 9/11 Argument. The Summer of 2001, well before September 11, was an attendance disaster for DCA. If anything, the worldwide decline in tourism was helpful for the perception of DCA's performance.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The problem with public statements is we don't know how much of it was trying to create demand and how much of it they genuinely, truly expected" That's right. What do some people expect, that Disney was going to announce "We built this park, we think it's going to suck wind and no one will go." It's just stupid talk. "does that mean they all failed?" Yes. Bulldoze all of them.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Ah, the 9/11 Argument." No, it's the none of the parks met goals that year argument. You don't know what a "disaster" summer was for DCA or not 6 years ago (it is insane, you know, to continue talking about this). If you do, give us figures. If you can't, and are depending on eyeballing it, then YOU DON'T KNOW. Stop claiming you do.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>You don't know this stuff.<< Yes, I actually do. And pulling my comments out of context won't change that. Simply stated (and for the last time), there were publicly issued statements, as well as actions, which give a clear view of what Disney expected for DCA. That's all.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Yes, I actually do" And the Scientologists know that there are active thetans wandering around blown out of volcanoes. "Simply stated (and for the last time), there were publicly issued statements" Repeating it endlessly does not make it true. Since you can't produce a shred of concrete evidence, you're simply providing falsehood. Sorry. You simply don't know what was expected. You can stop telling us you did now, because you have been unable to show why you make this claim, other than to say "I just know." And this has been going on all along. People making claims that Disney said this, or said that, and when it comes down to it, no, they didn't. Most of the crap we see online comes from website rumor mongering. The truth is if you actually did have information, I'd love to see it. If anyone had any actual real information I'd love to see it. My interest in this stuff is exactly specifically that: Having real information about what is going on and why. If you can't provide any, and can offer your opinions and speculation about it, fine. But don't try to pass off your opinions and speculation as if they were the truth. They are not.
Originally Posted By berol "Since you can't produce a shred of concrete evidence, you're simply providing falsehood." That doesn't follow. I can say 2+2 = 4 without providing concrete, but it's not a falsehood. (tho 2+2 also equals 0 and 1)
Originally Posted By jonvn If you were asked to provide information about 2+2, you could. You could point to places that specifically and exactly explained why it was 4, 0, or 1. He can't. Unless there is evidence to show that something is true, it's not. Furthermore, if something does not make sense combined with a lack of other evidence, it's extremely suspicious and likely isn't true. I was not asking a lot. I simply said "like what?" And I said that because some very specific claims were being made. What it comes down to every time is that there is no specific information at the base of all these stories. Just claims that there are.
Originally Posted By DlandDug There are none so blind as those who will not see. I've done this too many times to start up again. Please feel free to peruse these threads from the past, and then get back, if you wish: <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-86253-P-1.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms gBoard-T-86253-P-1.asp</a> <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-81049-P-1.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms gBoard-T-81049-P-1.asp</a> <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-87356-P-8.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms gBoard-T-87356-P-8.asp</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Yes, asking for information really does make me blind. Item 1: Web rumor site, quoted out of context by someone notorious for doing such. Item 2: A think piece by tangaroa, business genius. Right. No info there. Item 3: More opinion. Are you simply incapable of understanding what actually is an information source? You've simply proven my point. You have no information to support your comments.
Originally Posted By jonvn Plainly you think repeating your opinion often enough makes it fact. That's not the case.
Originally Posted By berol "He can't. Unless there is evidence to show that something is true, it's not. " (Pretend I posted this before #54, haven't clicked on its links.) If I don't show evidence that 2+2=4, it doesn't follow that I can't provide evidence or that there is no evidence. It does follow that those are possibilities along with 2+2 actually equalling 4.
Originally Posted By DlandDug As I stated before, the provided THREADS (not OPs) are more than sufficient to provide the information you are seeking. As I said before, I have no desire to do this all over again. Life is too short.
Originally Posted By jonvn "If I don't show evidence that 2+2=4, it doesn't follow that I can't provide evidence or that there is no evidence." Then unless somehow otherwise it's been shown that it is that value, then there is no reason to say it is. But, when you say 2+2 = 4, then I know this to be true without you having to show it to me because it has already been demonstrated at a certain point to actually be true. Otherwise you could sit here and make up any mathematical formula and say it shows something when it in fact does not. I have no reason to believe it does or does not. Simply stating "It is 4" is not evidence, it's a declaration. For example, if you said 2+2=5, and were asked why you said such a thing, and were unable to provide any reasoning for that, it stands that there is no reason to believe it. Conversely, if you said 2+2=4, and did not support that either, it may not be actually false, but there is no reason to believe that it is true, either. And since we do not believe things are true unless you can show them to be true, then they are not true. That makes them false. So, the same rules actually do apply. This is why I asked for information to support his comments. And instead of information, I got editorials from websites and blog posts from Disney laundry workers. That is not exactly what was described as Disney making announcements and such.
