Originally Posted By Darkbeer Here is an article by David Koenig from June of 2002... http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=mt020612dk >>What changed everything was the general public's chilly reception last year to Disney's California Adventure. Disney was so sure the new park would draw in full-fare-paying guests that it suspended sales of annual passes to both parks. By the end of the year, Disney realized that the once-shunned class of APs might be their only way to get warm bodies inside the new park on a daily basis. Annual pass prices were slashed and Disneyland-only annual passes eliminated. The number of annual passholders skyrocketed higher into the hundreds of thousands. APs are now seen as crucial to guaranteeing a base number of guests throughout the resort, throughout the year. First, management would have to change its own attitude toward APs. Several months ago, the resort created a new position, Manager of Annual Passholder Programs. His job is to coordinate various perks and bonuses for the AP demographic, and spearhead new AP initiatives.<<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer And one more... http://www.mouseplanet.com/archive/update37.htm >>Giving Away DCA In case you missed our news update yesterday: >Disneyland Resort radically reduces two park Annual Pass pricing Reacting to continuing attendance problems at the California Adventure park, the Disneyland Resort has dramatically reduced prices of and restructured their Annual Passport (AP) ticket program. Pricing for both parks is now at past single park levels, with the premium $299 dual park passport level discontinued. What this means is that the $199 Premium level annual pass now allows admission into both parks (the same as the previous Disneyland only price) with no blackout days, which is a $100 reduction from the past price. (If you have paid $299 after August 1st of this year, you will get four months added on to your pass to reflect the new pricing levels.) Current Disneyland only $199 premium passholders will be upgraded for free for the remainder of their passes, but need to have a new card issued to them at the park. Current single park lower level Disneyland only passholders may upgrade their passes to gain admission to both parks for $10. The new prices are $149 for Deluxe level (some blackout days) and $99 for Southern California (more blackout days). All future Annual Passes will be only for both parks - basically giving the customer admission into California Adventure for a $10 increase over the past single park Disneyland only price. Upcoming incentives for passholders also include a free dessert with $20 food purchase, and a free pin offered starting December 5th.< They had planned California Adventure (DCA) to be packed all of last year. Pricing was set at the same levels as Disneyland, and they only provided a quarter of the attractions - many of those just movies. With this new AP price point, and the current resident $6 one day ticket upgrade which allows two days at any single park, (or the ability to park hop on the same day) this is about the clearest signal yet that this new park has failed in everything it was supposed to do. The constant misfires - particularly in entertainment offerings such as the Steps in Time and LuminAria shows only served to create more bad word of mouth this year. Last minute "fixes" such as the return of the Electric Parade, and giving away kids tickets served to fuel media attention on how bad the park was doing, as will this latest discount. For people eligible for the discount, I do think they have finally valued this new park at what it is worth to a visitor expecting Disneyland quality, which it does not deliver. For out of town visitors who purchase a multiple day ticket that allows park hopping, the value is there also now for them. Treating DCA as an addition to your Disneyland day, at either same or just a little bit extra admission ($6 in this case) deals well with the value issue which has dogged this park since before it was built. (Mind you, the park is still a mess, but the price is now in sync with what a visitor gets.)<<
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Aside from the dubious Powerpoint Presentation there is nothing in that explosion of information is directly from Disney. As ususual we have someone claiming to have a bunch of reliable inside information who is coming up empty handed.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Some very nice young lady was kind enough to send me an internal PointPoint " I saw something similar, if not the same. It had no sort of bad aspect to it at all. Just a project wrap up discussing how and why things went, what worked, what didn't.
Originally Posted By jonvn Actually, I have a different power point presentation, if I recall. Most that explosion is not "information." It's speculation at best, with quotes from such sources as Miceage and himself. SO mostly, more useless drivel.
Originally Posted By jonvn Ugh, edit again. It IS the same PP presentation, I know how he got it, and I know it's quoted out of context, YET AGAIN. Just like the LAST time it was brought up.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt ^^Figures. Someone needs to post a link to the presentation so that we can all view it and make our own conclusions.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's simply a project post-mortem discussing what they did, what went well, what did not, and whether it should be done this way again. What the presentation discusses is how after the financial debacle that was Euro Disney, they needed to figure out a way to be able to build parks so as to not financially cause problems. Some things worked, some did not. Also in the presentation was the question, "Shall we do it again this way?" And in the presentation, they felt it was proper to do things like this. Because it shielded the company from a lot of potential financial difficulty. That's what it is. It's not a sinister and evil plan to destroy all that is Disney theme park fun, as it is presented here.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan It's extraordinarily easy to take things out of context in a Powerpoint presentation. The thing is, these presentations aren't intended to be stand-alone, self-running things. They are visual adds for a speaker who adds context to what is on any particular slide. Most people know this, don't they? Or do people fall for this tired tactic still?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Good grief, why do i still take the bait of these threads? Honestly, is there anything fresh to be said of the origins of DCA, the missteps, arguments over choice of theme, that hasn't been said thousands of times before? Is there any new perspective on it all? Is anyone at this late date still hoping to change anyone's opinion? I say this, knowing I'll get sucked right back into the very next rehash thread like this. I'm helpless to resist, even though I know it's completely nuts at this point. LOL! Maybe there's a 12-step program out there that could help me.
Originally Posted By jonvn " is there anything fresh to be said " No, there isn't. I prefer complaining about the new things, personally.
Originally Posted By jonvn "adds = aids" Some people are so negative. I say when life gives you aids, make lemonaids. - Sarah Silverman
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL, bless you DB, bless you. *WorldDisney sheds a tear* <<I say this, knowing I'll get sucked right back into the very next rehash thread like this. I'm helpless to resist, even though I know it's completely nuts at this point. LOL! Maybe there's a 12-step program out there that could help me.>> Well, maybe you can get Hans, Sportsgoofy, Jonvn and ALL the others who KEEP saying its all a waste of time, but like a broken clock, manages to be right on time for the debate at least twice a day . Dude, you LOVE IT!!!!! Just admit it, its the first step to killing the habit. Nothing wrong with it, we ALL have the obsession. Unlike you, I NEVER want to let go, never!! I been an addict for YEARS and I'm in my happy place here. Haaaaaaaaapy place! Feels so warm here. I swear, I think I even smell roses when I come to the DCA sucks threads and no where else. A nice, strong scent. Very fresh! Is that just me? Anyway, you guys never left me down and why I love it here. I want to throw in my 2 cents, but Darkbeer's post is going to take me a little time to catch up lol. But who am I kidding, I read them a all a dozen times before. The life of an addict though dictates I will read them again. Well, you guys know my stance: DCA sucks!!! Summed it for everyone okay? I see Hans already at the computer ready to argue that point lol. Step away dude, step away. Fight that urge! That's step TWO of the 12 steps 2oony was referring to. Get you a buddy to help you. I see you STILL want to argue it, but I think you are strong willed. Don't let the beautiful scent of these roses keep you here. MAN, that's a strong scent!!!! Be a man, don't take the bait dude. DCA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! Just testing you ;D. Okay, bed time. I expect to wake up with another 30 posts lol. Any new word on the bulldozers? Looking at some nice sleeping bags to prepare for the occassion.
Originally Posted By jonvn "like a broken clock, manages to be right on time for the debate at least twice a day" Well, it's like this. We have people who are putting out a lot of half truths and flat out lies. They repeat the same junk over and over again, and if they were not countered, then this entire idea of discussing this thing intelligently would fall apart. As it is, it's rather difficult to discuss reasonably because certain individuals simply keep repeating lies. Do you understand this? It's about not letting stupidty and ignorance take over. That's why these things get responded to by others. I would personally dislike seeing nothing but bald face ignoranct commentary win out over reasoned discourse. I don't find it pleasant to have to constantly put down these flare ups of idiocy and lies. I want to have a sensible conversation with Disney fans who actually are interested in the subject matter, and what's actually going on, and not espousing some cult based policy of diseminating untruth. "you guys know my stance" That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Now if you started trying to enforce others to follow along and then lied about things in order to do so, then that'd be quite a different matter. I don't like lies, liars, or people who want me to think like they do, particularly when what they think is based on absolutely no information. I don't want liars to put forth their "information," without some challenge. Now, if you want to let falsehood rule the day, fine. I actually am interested in this sort of thing and I don't want to hear garbage from know-nothings. OK?
Originally Posted By Bob Paris jon-are you this passionate about all your interests or is it just Disney? If so, why? For somebody so interested in, as you say logical argument, you seem to be a very angry man. I stated elsewhere I had come to admire(something I imagine you neither court nor could care less about)your debating skills. Reading this thread, however, I have seen you become quite personal and display quite an attacking nature. I just wonder why, if some people wish to espouse a viewpoint slightly off a few degrees from established, hard evidence why this bothers you to the point of coming across as an apopleptic "dear editor" contributor. The very nature of your tone has threatened to derail the point you are making. It almost seems like you want to be the grammer/subject/truth police in a meeting hall filled with people who just want to hang out and have fun discussing their mutual interest.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL Jonvn, you bit AGAIN!!! Man, you got to just learn to step away, step AWAY!!!! Its an addiction, you LOVE to argue, just admit it dude . Man, its a MESSAGE board, if you feel like its a civil duty to society to keep arguing against a guy who posts the same articles in a 4 month cycle (no offense Darkbeer, LOVE YOU MAN ) then man you need the most help . Dude, we ALL know where Darkbeer stand on this lol. His articles express that, people either believe it or don't. Interestly they believe the articles if they think the park sucks or dispute them if they like the park....how about that, huh . Cmon, we all like the thrill of the argument, the now 100+ posts of the same reguirgitated articles from 5+ years ago (Darkbeer, LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!) proves that over and over again. Its FUN and the roses are reeeally sweet smelling today. Is LP pumping the scent or something? Man, I don't wanna leave. Someone put up another DCA SUCKS thread soon or I will be force to argue with the folks in the HKDL section for awhile.
