Originally Posted By Dabob2 I DID respond fairly positively towards DCA, while also recognizing its shortcomings. But unlike some, I recognized its strengths as well as its weaknesses, and recognized that much of the problem was trying to open a WDW-style park someplace other than WDW (and as a second gate rather than a third). Did I like it better than you? Obviously. That's allowed. IMO, my view was rather more balanced than those who just bash, bash away, for whatever their pet reason is: lack of funds, lack of creativity, whatever. At any rate, it's fine to dislike the park. I was referring to your saying the same dang thing over and over and over for nearly 5 years - other critics have at least found ways (some quite creatively) to criticize the park again and again. Sometimes they make me laugh out loud, even though I disagree with them. You seemingly haven't had an original thought SINCE 2001.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I was referring to your saying the same dang thing over and over and over for nearly 5 years << Again, oh, please. I bet if I said (going back to 2001).... "DCA is very good. Eisner and Braverman did a fine job. I can't understand why people criticize it." "DCA is very good. Eisner and Braverman did a fine job. I can't understand why people criticize it." "DCA is very good. Eisner and Braverman did a fine job. I can't understand why people criticize it." ...you'd at the very least nod or shrug silently and pass my comments by.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 If you said nothing but that for 5 years going, I imagine I'd say "enough already! We get it! Go somewhere else, rhetorically speaking, or why bother?!"
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> my view was rather more balanced << Balanced to you but hazy or mis-diagnosed to me. I don't think DCA is a dud because it's a "WDW-style park" but because it's full of schlock or mediocrity, from Paradise Pier to Bountiful Farms, from the "hubcap" at the entrance to the local-yokel theme in general.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct << I wonder if people who like to complain about lack of creativity recognize the irony of their saying the same dang thing over and over and over for nearly five years. >>> ROTFLMAO !!!!!! That is brilliant !!!!! Well said !
Originally Posted By disneywatcher ^ Yea, uh-huh, Dennis. I recall you're another one of those who was rather easygoing about DCA's quality from the beginning.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Balanced to you but hazy or mis-diagnosed to me.>> Those of us on the other side of the fence could say the same thing about your point of view.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> Those of us on the other side of the fence could say the same thing about your point of view. << Therefore, you more than most people should realize DCA isn't DCA because its budget wasn't big enough, but because of *other* factors associated with its development.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Does it really matter at this point? DCA is what it is... you can't turn back the clock; Disney isn't going to raze the park just because you hate it. No, they are trying to fix it. Get over it already.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Therefore, you more than most people should realize DCA isn't DCA because its budget wasn't big enough, but because of *other* factors associated with its development.>> I've never blamed DCA's shortcomings on lack of budget. As others have said, I think the primary problem is they used the WDW model for opening additional parks and it just didn't fly in Anaheim. Since Disney had never opened an additional gate in Anaheim before, I don't know that it is something that Disney could have easily foreseen.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> As others have said, I think the primary problem is they used the WDW model << Are you saying that the "WDW model" is one based on bad creative decisionmaking? Or the belief that recreating an old-time seaside amusement park, as one example, was ideal for a Disney park? If so, then, yes, it was a mistake to have followed that approach. But such an approach has little to do with the demographic or geographical differences between Anaheim and Orlando (or, of course, differences of dollars and budgets between here and there).
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Having been to WDW a few times, I couldn't help but feel that it was built to be "just good enough" for the masses. I love the place but most of it lacks the kind of detail and intimacy found in Disneyland. I think that is what was meant by DCA being built on the "WDW model". Casual tourists are going to be far more forgiving than obsessed internet-geek annual passholders who visit weekly.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <>> my view was rather more balanced << <Balanced to you but hazy or mis-diagnosed to me. I don't think DCA is a dud because it's a "WDW-style park" but because it's full of schlock or mediocrity, from Paradise Pier to Bountiful Farms, from the "hubcap" at the entrance to the local-yokel theme in general.> Fine. But you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Others have found rather creative ways to criticize the park for the past 5 years, some of them with an even harsher view than yours, but saying actual DIFFERENT THINGS. I may not agree with them, but at least they're entertaining. They don't recycle the same basic 8 phrases in ever-so-slightly different form for 5 freaking years running!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<< I wonder if people who like to complain about lack of creativity recognize the irony of their saying the same dang thing over and over and over for nearly five years. >>> ROTFLMAO !!!!!! That is brilliant !!!!! Well said !> Thanks, Dennis.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Are you saying that the "WDW model" is one based on bad creative decisionmaking? Or the belief that recreating an old-time seaside amusement park, as one example, was ideal for a Disney park? If so, then, yes, it was a mistake to have followed that approach. But such an approach has little to do with the demographic or geographical differences between Anaheim and Orlando (or, of course, differences of dollars and budgets between here and there).>> No, I am referring to the WDW model of opening additional gates before they are close to being built out. Although Epcot was pretty complete when it opened, both MGM and Animal Kingdom were opened while much development remained. I think Disney thought they could pull it off with DCA too. Obviously, they couldn’t.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> They don't recycle the same basic 8 phrases in ever-so-slightly different form for 5 freaking years running! << Yea, right. And you're still stating -- 5 years later -- that DCA isn't better because Anaheim isn't Orlando, or because the DisCo couldn't set aside more money for it.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I love the place but most of it lacks the kind of detail and intimacy found in Disneyland.>> Intimacy I can see, detail, no. EPCOT is phenomenal in its details, as is DAK. Perhaps you are comparing only the MK to DL?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >> They don't recycle the same basic 8 phrases in ever-so-slightly different form for 5 freaking years running! << <Yea, right. And you're still stating -- 5 years later -- that DCA isn't better because Anaheim isn't Orlando, or because the DisCo couldn't set aside more money for it.> Among dozens of other phrases. In fact, I haven't said anything along those lines in months, and only did now because I got into it with you. It's not my raison d'etre for being here.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I haven't said anything along those lines in months << But the fact remains you continue to claim that DCA isn't better for reasons that go far beyond poor decisionmaking. But, then again, you did give DCA pretty good marks after your first visit. So my stating the same thing since 2001 not only doesn't square with your view of DCA, but because it doesn't duplicate your sense of why the park isn't better, you're less likely to go, uh-huh, or shrug it off and think, now onto the next set of messages on this board!
Originally Posted By woody "In fact, I haven't said anything along those lines in months, and only did now because I got into it with you." So you're only saying the same thing after a few months of being creative to counter uncreative responses. LOL!!!
