Originally Posted By Donald Duck Fan68 >actually the whole thing wont be done till next spring in 2010.. therefore they will not refill it till then probally..as they are still working on it..< I heard they would refill the lagoon sometime after labor day and begin running tests and working out the synchronization (after park hours). It's also possible/probable that they'll need to drain it again sometime before Spring 2010 to make any necessary adjustments.
Originally Posted By ni_teach danyoung said: " So if all the nozzles live just under the surface, do they need to come up to work, or will they work from under water? " From my understanding the nozzles will work fine being just under the surface a little bit. The platform also has the advantage of if something breaks down they do not have to drain the whole lake. Someone can walk out to fix minor things with no draining at all and for major fixes they only have to drain a few feet.
Originally Posted By submarine-maniac In this article they say that the platform will rise up for the show, and be lowered down under water for the rest of the day... ""The entire apparatus is raised and lowered by air compressors off-site that change the amount of air in plastic buoys below the superstructure. During the day, the platform will rest about five feet underwater, hiding it from view."" <a href="http://ocresort.freedomblogging.com/2009/07/16/water-spouts-fire-cannons-to-pierce-disney-skies/11855/" target="_blank">http://ocresort.freedombloggin...s/11855/</a>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Well, there we go! I guess the platform will just 'float' then when the show and maintainence are going on, and then go back down to their original heights when they let the air out of the bouys. Looking at the columns that hold the platform up a little more carefully, it does sort of look like they will be capable of extending upward. This seems like a very clever way to do it, and extremely cost effective as well, assuming it works as well as they seem to think it will. Something that another article I read today mentioned was that the big platform means that they won't have to drain the bay for maintainence. I hadn't really given it any thought, but it would allow crews to just walk around between the nozzles and fix what they need to, right where it is. I feel like a lot of what they're doing for this show is very clever from a technical standpoint. On a semi-related note, does anybody know why the bay is so deep in the middle? It's expensive to move dirt around, so it doesn't really make a ton of sense to me that it would be so much deeper in the center than around the edges. The only think I can think of is maybe something related to wind creating waves on a shallower lake, but that doesn't make much sense.
Originally Posted By Pal of Minnie Can't wait for the waves-then it will really feel like a boardwalk!
Originally Posted By DlandDug Hope you saw today's LP Lotion article about World of Color. It really explains just how the show platform works. Yes, it will "float" into one of four different positions. The black columns you can see now are not attached to the platform-- they mark the lowest level on which the platform rests. The platfrom can also be moved to the water line, raised slightly above for the show, and even lifted completely out of the water after hours for maintenence. It will take about ten minutes for the scissor lifts to raise the entire platform. The average depth of the lagoon is 14 feet, with gently sloping sides.
Originally Posted By WaterSkunk Just had to hop in here and drop a post... I love Disney, but my first love is fountains and water/light shows. And this thing is going to be incredible, I completely agree! Don't think this will, exactly, be comparable to the Fountains of Bellagio. WET Design built that, and Disney is using (from what I've seen, extremely high-quality) copies of WET-style nozzles; the 'whip' is an Oarsman, the 'dancer' is probably the spinning Fan Oarsman (as used at Americana at Brand, San Pedro Gateway and Dubai Fountain), and the "blow pop" is essentially a Shooter - the tech in Shooters isn't really that complicated, so I imagine engineering one wasn't too terribly difficult. Someone tried to tell me the gray cylinders out there were a new WET Shooter design, in and of themselves - claimed inside information - of course, it turns out they're bases for both types of nozzles so-far installed. The 'whip' and 'dancer', obviously, will not be built like either of the four WET Oarsmen designs (well, two sets of two variants). What's unique are the fire jets - WET works with gas flames, too, the WETFire effect at Viejas in San Diego is incredible - but they've never done a MOVING flame jet. Admittedly, the operating tech is likely identical, but... I've seen the footage, and the waterscreen-projection looks unusually clear - it's difficult to get images that clear on either type of screen - but they also show projections on the mist left by a moving whip, which is impressive as well. Note the positioning of the steel lattice supports for the projectors for the arch mist screens (at back, with cable trays); two two at the sides are not behind, but rather out further and angled, so the projector is aimed at the main viewing area. Water projection is always clearest when the projector points directly at the audience through the water. As to the tech of having the fountains disappear, what is unusual is having all components on a movable bed. Very innovative. The compressed-air tanks can raise it until the nozzles just protrude (and they do have to exit the water) for shows, with scissor-lifts to raise it higher and more firmly for main. time. WET's Bellagio and Dubai Fountain also submerge, but not like that; at Bellagio, the Oarsmen rise and fall on robotic arms, and in Dubai a sled-like Oarsman is used where the nozzle simply tilts far to the side. In both cases, the Shooters have little air-powered nozzle shields which swing up into place or fold over. At Bellagio, there are submerged catwalks, but the entire superstructure CAN be raised if necessary - which it isn't at Dubai where the water is only five feet deep. The storyboard sort of run-through given in the video footage sounds extremely exciting, as does the "interaction" - characters onscreen can become stylized as water formations as they move down; a whale can dive, and water jets make the splash; orange and red light in water can indeed simulate fire, with real fire appearing out of it. I have a feeling that when, say, the stampede scene transfers from projection to rows of water jets chasing toward you, the emotional impact will be the same - the action is coming right at you. S'cuse the extra-long post, as I'm rather passionate about these sorts of shows (Fantasy Waters, ye shall be missed) but I'd like to make an observation on Darkbeer's photos of the platform. My observations, opinion only: We see two types of nozzles out there. The ones with a gray tip are attached in clusters of up to five, via hoses and manifolds, to large cylindrical Grundfos pumps (their logo is visible on boxes stacked about in earlier shots). These are the basic vertical spray nozzles. The ones with a brass tip are the 'blow pops' and are connected to the (remote) compressed-air system - they don't require pumps, as submerged Shooters don't. If you look at earlier photos, when only the bases were installed, taken from the Fun Wheel, you can see in dot-form the pattern of the rings etc. What I DO NOT see are movable or articulated nozzles of any type, and I mean robotically, pneumatically or electrically - all the nozzle tips are on leveling swivels, which don't count. I don't see any fire nozzles, either. The rumor, back when WET was said to be involved, was that the white tarps around the central tent were Fan Oarsmen, and yet if WET is NOT involved, that seems unlikely - though they could still be Disney's version. I also expect to see special nozzles for the projection domes (I have a feeling these will either be spray rings, or circles of whips turned inward) and the butterflies (which could be the fan nozzles, as anyone looking at Americana at Brand can see - these things are like ballet dancers, and mistly enough to carry projection!) The pipe along the Fun Wheel side, with its three outlets ending just before the cable trays, will undoubtedly supply water to the three fan-type water screens, which require high pressures for operation as they force water through a thin, semicircular slit; PEM of Canada is one firm which can supply these. The long water-screen will, naturally, be comprised of vertical jets - projecting clear video on this is even harder! See the footage on YouTube of the "Vanishing Point" puzzle in Las Vegas for a view of video projection on Shooters - as they want the screen at WoC to last, it wouldn't be practical to use blow-pops for that, though they could be fired in small groups to make a piece of a projection appear suddenly and then fade away. I'm not sure about the purpose of the three white tents; I can imagine them being a small respite from the heat for workers (there are also misting fans out there on stands) but I see air ducts, boxes etc. sitting under them - there must be another purpose! Anyone have guesses? And of course, it's easy to see cable trays going to the (projector) towers, the black metal ones, at the back. Also note that a cable tray runs to the Fun Wheel, which could hold anything from lights to a projector, or its animated lighting modules could be used to enhance the show; imagine if, during the Color of Fear, the walls of water fill with flame, and "flames" flow briefly up over the wheel. The under-bridge control booth is interesting, too. And while the platform may not be attached to those black support uprights, I say there's poles extending down inside them to keep the platform centered - i.e. so it won't drift. Last, but not least, at the back, at one end, is a blue tarp surrounding some sort of creation being pieced together as a wire form. What could this be? Seems to be sitting on a solid concrete platform. Sorry 'bout the rambling, but I'm very excited about this thing. Anywhere besides Darkbeer's gallery that has any good, (very) recent detail shots of the platform and components?
Originally Posted By WaterSkunk Gotta add - have seen new details: the gray-tipped nozzles supposedly are the Chasers, I'm going to hazard a guess that they're probably not. They're connected three, four or five to a pump, and using valves COULD work but only if you shut one before firing another (needing very fast valves). If you open more than one valve, the combined height decreases significantly. The brass-tipped ones are Grid Nozzles, supposedly. Again, I'm not clear. Reverse those two designations and I might say "yes", since in concept art the grids are shown working in groups. The footage of the blow-pop firing seems to show a larger assembly (WET has done some very compact Shooters, but normally they need length) which would indicate that, like the whips, dancers and fire effects, they're not yet installed. I do see some small devices that may be part of the MEE Fog system, which is what WET prefers to use as well - real water fog, as opposed to "hot" or "cold" theatrical fog.
Originally Posted By Donald Duck Fan68 >It will take about ten minutes for the scissor lifts to raise the entire platform.< Just a minor clarification: the scissor lifts don't actually lift the platform, they just lock it in place at the 3 different levels. The big blue tubs underneath to the lifting and lowering by either filling with air or water.
Originally Posted By WOWOregon I just hope they have water in the Lagoon by the 2nd week of September so we have good photos at Ariels Grotto (snicker) but will be back to see the show when the fountains are complete without a doubt!
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Anywhere ... that has any good, (very) recent detail shots of the platform and components?<< Please look over the LP Lotion article on the front page today, and then come back with more of your analysis. <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/Lotion-View-923.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/L...-923.asp</a> Note that only about 2/3 of the equipment on the platform is installed. The full complement also includes Water Whips, Dual Water Whips, Mist Screens (which are capable of shooting 90 feet in the air), Fire Balls, Fire Movers, Blow Pops, Dancers, and MEE Fog, as well as 20k Projectors. There is also a photo (from Disney) that shows a closeup of their Grid Nozzle, which definitely has the brass pipe. <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/Showpic.asp?filename=http://s231432788.onlinehome.us/lotion/pics/SS20090721-BSD/big/P16-0001.jpg&caption=+%5Bc%2E+DISNEY%5D+Various+fountains+are+used+on+the+platform%2E+Most+prevalent+are+the+Grid+Nozzles+shown+here+in+the+foreground%2C+placed+on+eight+foot+centers+over+the+entire+platform%2E+Each+has+its+own+LED+light%2C+a+nozzle%2C+a+one+horse+power+pump+and+adjustable+valves%2E+These+are+the+workhorses+of+World+of+Color%2E+Chasers+%28in+background+with+stainless+steel+cone%29+are+more+muscular%2C+using+power+rather+than+finesse+to+achieve+specific+effects%2E+Chasers+are+capable+of+firing+up+to+85+feet+in+the+air%2E+The+valves+on+the+Chasers+can+be+recycled+in+less+than+eight+tenths+of+a+second%2E+They+are+arrayed+in+lines%2C+circles+and+arcs%2E+A+single+30+horsepower+pump+feeds+five+Chasers%2E" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/S...asers%2E</a> I took notes during the media walk through, and here's more detail than was included in the article. Grid Nozzles are on 8'0" centers over the entire platform. Each has its own LED light, which will be installed last (they're fragile). The LED will be able to illuminate the entire column of water, however high it is being shot. The Grid Nozzles each have their own 1 hp adjustable pump the valves can control the speed, as well as vent water out the side. Chasers (with the stainless steel cone) are the ones that share the large pumps. There are five Chasers per each 30 hp pump.
Originally Posted By WaterSkunk Excellent. I am, apparently, quite wrong: the chasers DO have valves. Incredibly fast ones, 8/10 of a second reset! Previously, I was basing my opinions on photographs alone. So, the chasers form the rings and arcs, providing the Bellagio/Dubai Shooter effect - and the Grid nozzles cover the entire show layout and are thick, clear-stream nozzles. Makes sense - the entire platform can be a low "carpet" of water, with light painting a stream across a forest floor, as easily as marching rows of hyenas. I'm still 100% excited at the possibilities of this show. Every variety of show (the myriad WET displays, Waltzing Waters, and unique [if uncommon] fountain shows elsewhere) can work well with music that the others cannot, so there are shows out there that could work with almost anything, musically and choreographically speaking. For Disney magic, this is unquestionably going to be THE display. The whips of various types, blow pops, dancers etc. are visibly not installed yet. Same with the fire effects and their plumbing, and the Mee fog. The best way I can see to light streams like this would be hollow LED rings placed around the nozzles - in the case of the whips, they would follow the direction of the jet, like the lights on an Oarsmen, but directly, like Bellagio (Dubai has a sort of pantograph-like link system to move the lights on gimbals). Chasers and Grid, too, would benefit from ring lights. As to the fire, it'll be interesting to see if they use colorants. I'll be very interested to see how they move the whips and dancers. WET uses two motors for Oarsmen: one tilts the X axis, and the other tilts the Y axis. In the case of their Fan Oarsmen (WoC's "dancers" I believe) a greater range of motion is achieved via one motor which creates a wide X-axis tilt, mounted on a turntable for 360-degree rotation. In addition, a third drive allows the flat fan nozzle tip itself to spin in either direction and at any speed. Only three shows use these, so far, but there's video footage of all of them, and they do have a ballerina-like quality to them, very exciting motion. Plus, they'll make nice mobile projection surfaces. Seen a few imitators, but mostly by Indian firms ("musical fountains" are a must-have attraction in places like India, and nearly every sizeable city will have at least one) and never unusually impressive. Again, in the back right corner, beside the Orange Stinger, something is taking shape in 3-D forms made of rebar. There is also a stand or platform here, similar to the three projector stands in front of the Fun Wheel but clad in black sheathing. Anyone have guesses?
Originally Posted By believe >>>>On a semi-related note, does anybody know why the bay is so deep in the middle? It's expensive to move dirt around, so it doesn't really make a ton of sense to me that it would be so much deeper in the center than around the edges. The only think I can think of is maybe something related to wind creating waves on a shallower lake, but that doesn't make much sense.<<<< I guess they weren't so cheap afterall when they built the lagoon. They must have known they were going to do some sort of water show - otherwise, they would have done a 5 feet deep lagoon (like Rivers of America) instead of a 14 feet deep lagoon. If it was 5 feet, it would have cost millions to demolish the concrete and dig out the dirt.
