Originally Posted By goodgirl I never once thought of them as "give me presents" events. The bride was a co-worker who was thrilled to be getting married. She wanted everyone to join in the celebration. I didn't feel awkward about not attending and my not attending has in no way affected our professional relationship. The first baby shower was something similar. The second baby shower was a lovely handmade invitation; the phone call was a follow-up because the hostess was providing a very expensive buffet and wanted to make sure her head count was correct. Inspector, I doubt these kinds of events are going to go away. They obviously push your buttons. I would suggest just tossing the invitations you get--friends and family be damned.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Inspector, I doubt these kinds of events are going to go away. They obviously push your buttons. I would suggest just tossing the invitations you get--friends and family be damned.>> I doubt they're going to go away, too. And there's something very nice about the fact that these traditions continue well after their anthropological origins are mute. I don't begrudge anyone who throws an honest shower. I don't begrudge a couple who invite relatives and real friends to a wedding. And, fortunately, I've never had ocassion to "toss" an invitation, "friends and family be damned." What I do begrudge is anyone who would use "etiquete" as an excuse to not be as generous with a non-"event" friend as they would Stepford-ly be with someone who went through the routines of getting engaged, married, or pregnant.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Oh, I doubt most people would begrudge anyone anything...but they might roll their eyes a bit.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I will say that I've never been invited to an engagement party myself. The only "engagement gift" I've ever given is on a few occasions when I've been told by good friends that they're engaged, and I will give them the planning book I used because I found it so helpful, but there was no party or gathering involved.>> Is there not such a thing as a "bridal shower"? Does attendance and gift-giving at a bridal shower exhonerate one from giving a gift at the wedding?
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<From the letter that was written, it wasn't even really about that. It was about the mother saying she should get back some of the money she's doled out to other people.>> Now THAT's tacky. Not the thought. The letter.
Originally Posted By cstephens Inspector 57 wrote: > Is there not such a thing as a "bridal shower"? You do know that a bridal shower is not the same thing as an engagement party, right? > Does attendance and gift-giving at a bridal shower exhonerate one from giving a gift at the wedding? One is never required to give a gift. Nor is there any requirement for how large a gift would be, if they were to choose to give one. There are people who attended my wedding who didn't bring a gift other than to make the time to be present at my wedding. I don't begrudge the fact that they didn't bring a physical gift. I'm a little confused as to the vehemence of your reactions on this thread. /cs
Originally Posted By LuLu I'm confused too. I've never known I57 to be curmudgeonly! I57, I don't understand the idea that showers and weddings don't make sense any more, that the gifts aren't needed. Surely there are many individuals who get married/pregnant etc. and can't afford things they need. But is that even the point? Don't the gift givers just want to celebrate an exciting occasion? I'd happily celebrate someone moving into a new place, if I were invited to such a party. Married, single, partnered, whatever. But celebrating 10 years seems weird.
Originally Posted By LuLu On rereading the first post, I see we're not celebrating 10 years, but (in Abby's opinion) celebrating confirmed bachelorette-hood. If this is the case, I honestly find it OK. If a friend invited me to such an event, I would be happy to go and bring a gift such as I might to a wedding. I.e., if the person had all her "needs," then I'd enjoy bringing a lovely vase or decorative piece or some such.
Originally Posted By DlandDug Hey, Pixie! Next time you're in town feel free to come over and browse my five foot shelf of antique etiquette guides. There are two pretty fictions that should be observed in these functions. One, that people are invited strictly because it would give the guest of honor pleasure to spend time with them. And two, a gift is not some sort of requirement for admission. Unfortunately, too many people no longer understand this. So we have wedding invitations tacked onto company bulletin boards, and mothers-of-the-bride shaking down guests who haven't sent a gift. It is perfectly proper to decline an invitation; it is perfectly proper to attend without "coughing up" a gift; and it is perfectly proper for the host/hostess/guest of honor to keep their opinion to themself! (As far as the case at hand, this would be much, much more palatable if Mother would persuade a friend to officially host this party.)
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>Within Australia, it's friends not relatives that hold the showers. If it's a wedding it's the matron of honor and not the family that arrange it.<< The matron of honour is often/usually a relation though, or at least in my fairly large family! Is it okay for a family member to arrange the shower if they're also the matron of honour? I think all the bridal showers I've attended have been "hosted" by the bride's family, so maybe the etiquette is changing a bit. It's funny though that this should come up because my friend was saying to me recently that she doesn't think she'll ever get married. When her brother got married their family and friends showered them with gifts, but she knows even if she has a housewarming party the presents she get will be nowhere near the size of a wedding present. I don't mean to make her out as greedy, she was just worried about affording larger purchases (such as a washing machine) when she buys her own place. That said, I do find the situation in the "Dear Abby" letter a bit odd.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Swerving just a little and being specific to the letter. It sounds different than that to me. I felt that underlying the entire thing is that this particular bachelorette isn't really all that happy about being such. She feels left out because all her friends have gone and done things that created a situation where "showers" of some sort were possible. You know the old saying..."always a bridesmaid, never a bride"? I think her mother is doing this because all of her so called friends didn't have the sensitivity to do some party or get together for her. She used the idea that, good grief she has spent a fortune on gifts for all of you, how about a little affection and caring coming back. If that is the case etiquette books are not going to cover it...there just not human enough. Tacky, maybe but it could be something as simple as a Mother trying to make her daughter feel loved and cared about. It seems that life is passing her by. Now don't interpret that as my saying that a person has to get married or have babies to feel complete. Just try once being included in social things when you are not attached in some way or the other. Believe me your married or coupled friends think of a person, by themselves, as a stone to be dragged along in pity. Yes, that was a generalization. I know that isn't always the case but for some reason that is the vibe that I got from this particular instance. Just a thought from a different angle!
Originally Posted By sherrytodd In reading the letter, the slant of the letter to Dear Abby was written by someone who seems to not be to enthralled by the idea. I'm sure the invitation didn't say, "My daughter gave you guys all these gifts and didn't get anything in return so come to her party and cough it up!" She wants to celebrate her singlehood. It sounds like her friends (except for this one person) think its a good idea. I say let her have her party. If this were someone in say her 30's - 40's and she's never been married then I think this actually could be pretty fun. I also still don't have a problem with all the traditional showers. There are still people who are starting new stages in their lives, particularly people who are having their first child, who the tradition of the community coming together and helping them still holds a little merit I think. It does bother me when I show up to the bridal registry and there are no items under $100. Those people get corn cob holders. =P
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <it was considered tacky for a family member to essentially ask for gifts for their relative. (I'm not sure why it's any less tacky for friends to do the same, come to think of it).> I think it's just our social culture. Kind of like how it's tacky for yourself or a relative to brag about you or "play you up" for something or put in a good word for you (i.e. promotions, etc.), but it seems sweet and more genuine and worth listening to if a friend does so, since they're more "subjective" about you and not jaded by blood relation---they chose to be your friend based on your merits and character, whereas you have no say in who your relatives are, lol (if that makes sense...just my take on it). <There's no legitimate reason for anyone getting engaged or married or pregnant to extort money from friends, but they all do. [later:] They got pregnant. The village ensured that they had the child-rearing things they couldn't afford on their own. I LOVE that! What a wonderful and needed outpouring of affection and support that was. But now those things are a cultural artifact. If you can't afford to get married without a shower, you're in trouble. Need a shower to get pregnant? I don't think so. [later:] I don't begrudge anyone who throws an honest shower.> Thank you for that last sentence. My sister just recently had her baby shower. This was definitely not a "give me presents" scheme cooked up by her. She and my brother-in-law were stunned when they found out she was pregnant last year, and her best friend organized and threw her the baby shower, and it was sweet, fun, and put together very well (I was there, it was co-ed). Were there presents? Yes. They did register (and these days many people like to know if you're registered for such an event), but for things in reasonable price ranges---they were going for needed things, not greed. They're not the shallow type. Big "looking-out-for" sis even told me not to worry about a gift, but I of course got them something because I really wanted to. And they were overwhelmed at the kindness, generosity, and great help they received from everyone there. Can they really afford a baby? Not all that comfortably. But after the shock of learning of their pregnancy, they were thrilled. And determined to give their baby the best life they could provide. I know they are going to be wonderful parents, and am so happy for them and their future addition. And my brother-in-law has just about the strongest work ethic I've seen in anyone (Dad is number 1 in that dept. though), so he's determined to do the best he can to provide for his family. I know he'll always stay on top of his game concerning his family. So yes, this was indeed an honest shower with some much-appreciated necessary things, and a wonderful showing of support and love. Sis was so touched and grateful and made sure to thank her best friend very much for throwing it for her. I think it was the best day several of us have had in quite a while. So don't give up all hope Inspector, like you said, there are indeed honest showers out there.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ I see showers as a way to celebrate. I'm offended that because I had showers for these different events, I'm a money grubber. Perhaps it takes being part of a family who is loving and believes in celebrating milestones to understand sharing joy with friends and family and purchasing a gift with thought and love. Traditions last for a reason. Just like religion, the shower is by no means out-dated. What I object to in the Dear Abby letter is the intent of the mother. It's not to celebrate a confirmed lifestyle, but to get something back for all of the gifts she has given in the past. That means gifts given in the past were not given with love and the intent of celebrating, but out of a false sense of obligation. Personally, I would rather have you skip the shower than attend or give an insincere gift.
Originally Posted By dsnyredhead So you give the person gifts for her "happily single shower". How old is the person? I have known people who have gotten married much later in life. What does she expect when she finds that someone special and decides finally to get married? In my 20's. I never thought I would get married....I've been for 6 1/2 years now. I had known people later in life to get married...never say never!
Originally Posted By debtee <The matron of honour is often/usually a relation though, or at least in my fairly large family! Is it okay for a family member to arrange the shower if they're also the matron of honour? I think all the bridal showers I've attended have been "hosted" by the bride's family, so maybe the etiquette is changing a bit. > I agree it could be changing Kez! As Every wedding I have ever been to the bridesmaids were relatives of the bride usually sisters, however the Matron of Honor has always been the best-friend of the Bride. So all the showers I have been too, and there's been a few, have been organised by the friend, with some help from the relo's. It's usually held at the brides house or the friends house. The Matron of Honor also is in charge of organising the Hen's night.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I'm confused too. I've never known I57 to be curmudgeonly!>> I apologize for that. And I'd VOWED not to vent my frustrations on LP -- or to at least limit my "bad mood" posts to World Events! For what it's worth, I don't think anyone here is a gift-grubber. But... while I regret not expressing myself more gracefully, I meant everything I posted. I don't believe that invitations to showers, weddings, anniversary parties, etc., come without pressure to produce a gift. Rhapsodize all you want about how the event is really just a celebration of the person and the event, but unless the invitation says "No gifts, please," the pressure is there. Review the posts above. Half the people who objected to my posts said "It's not about the presents! How dare you!" The other half said, "But we NEED the presents." I also still don't understand the reluctance to allow the original woman and her mother to have a celebratory event at which people bring gifts. I guess the reluctance is because it wouldn't be an event that "etiquette" has sanctioned. My point is that "etiquette" allows other women to be the recipients at MULTIPLE sanctioned events. I think we should be pragmatic, flex a bit, and allow the single woman to cash in to the tune of a small percentage of what her going-to-get-married friends are getting. Or, for those who believe that there's no pressure to bring gifts, give the woman the pleasure of your company at her party.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Confidential to our Australian friends: It seems that US guidelines about hosting bridal showers depend upon geographical location and socioeconomic status. Where I live, the bride- (or couple-) to-be gets two or three showers. One is thrown by friends, and is typically rounded up by the maid/matron of honor. (If she's a relative, she gets the pleasure of helping organize two showers...) One is thrown by members of both families. (About half the time, it seems to me, the planners come to the point of almost pulling each other's hair out in the process of organizing the happy party.) Frequently there is also a third shower thrown by co-workers of the bride.
Originally Posted By SuzieQ Holy cow! I've never heard of such acrimonious people planning a celebrations. <and allow the single woman to cash in to the tune of a small percentage of what her going-to-get-married friends are getting.> Talk about money-grubbing! That's the very definition, lol
