Originally Posted By Mr X ***Oh, and before the usual suspects swoop in, I'm well aware that Glenn Beck didn't put anyone in crosshairs*** No, he just did a skit about how funny it would be to poison the Speaker of the House of Representatives.
Originally Posted By barboy2 Sorry Counselor, I just don't see it. Next you're going to blame Ozzy Ozbourne for teens committing suicide, WWF for extreme roughhousing that leads to death, MTV's Jackass whereby idiots imitate stunts and end up in a wheelchairs or parents that abused their kids who then grow up to abuse other kids.
Originally Posted By Mr X Hey Barboy, do you believe in direct correlation or any sense of culpability at all in these matters when hateful rhetoric is directed at specific people, as in the case with Palin? ***The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of "palling around with terrorists", citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers. The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric. But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further. The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks. Michelle Obama, the future First Lady, was so upset that she turned to her friend and campaign adviser Valerie Jarrett and said: "Why would they try to make people hate us?"*** <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/3405336/Sarah-Palin-blamed-by-the-US-Secret-Service-for-death-threats-against-Barack-Obama.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ama.html</a> These sort of "political" commentaries do not occur in a vacuum. Stirring up fear and hate is a dangerous endeavor, do you think that simply doesn't matter?
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///Hey Barboy, do you believe in direct correlation or any sense of culpability at all in these matters when hateful rhetoric is directed at specific people, as in the case with Palin?/// of course not. ((And since we're getting into 1st Amend. territory here I'm just waiting for the misplaced and cliched statement concerning "fire in a crowded theater"))
Originally Posted By EdisYoda I'll bite barboy. Yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater IS legal under the 1st amendment, however by doing so, you had better be prepared to face the repercussions of doing so: Inciting a riot and involuntary manslaughter just to name a couple. People need to take responsibility for their actions and what they say instead of just saying that it's protected.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/09/arizona.giffords.chairman/index.html?hpt=T1" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITI...l?hpt=T1</a> Note the part about Tea partiers and guns around her office. And Barboy, I don't really care.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Video games caused Columbine and Virginia Tech. Everyone knows that.
Originally Posted By LoyalOrderWaterBuffa Is it too late to not want to be like Sara Palin? I still think she is smart and sexy but when I am 44 like her I don't want to be yelled at for people popping up dead. She should be a nicer woman on the intranet. And let us not forget that this young man being held against his will needs our prayers now. It is so sad this Arizona thing.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder This young man being held against his will????? Are you insane????? Whoever or whatever you are, we don't really need to be hearing from you right about now. God, what you posted is disgusting.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Giffords is a subscriber to her shooter's channel on YouTube. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/giffords2</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Are you insane?????<< Not insane. Just a troll or an idiot or both. I vote both.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb This young man is being "held against his will" because he BROKE THE LAW. Is he mentally unstable? Very likely yes. But the fact his he took a gun to a public function and used it to injure and kill innocents. I don't care if you disagree with the politics of the victims, what matters is that they are the victims, not the shooter. Pray for him if you want, he probably does need that, he is a sick, sick young man. But don't pretend that his being "held against his will" is in anyway unjust. BTW I'm a beautiful 44 year old brunette too, but you know what? I don't have an Internet poster with the names of people I disagree with under targets. Even if this boy didn't listen to Palin and the rest, the rhetoric needs to be dialed WAY back.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 The Beatles were responsible for Charles Manson killing Sharon Tate and her party too, since the Family scrawled lyrics from the White Album on the walls of the mansion. As much as I want to state the people spewing hate are responsible, it's hard to make them culpable for madness, since someone not in their right mind can use even something innocuous as a trigger. - Anatole
Originally Posted By fkurucz "Where did you live when you were in the States? I've lived in San Francisco for 15 years and feel very safe here." You can turn on the locals news in any major metro area and there's almost always a story about someone being shot. That is unheard of in other civilized countries.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "You can turn on the locals news in any major metro area and there's almost always a story about someone being shot. That is unheard of in other civilized countries." Right, they get stabbed. <a href="http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080609a1.html" target="_blank">http://search.japantimes.co.jp...9a1.html</a>
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Don't worry, when you restrict gun ownership people manage to kill each other just fine all around the world. <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7740548/Students-slashed-in-ninth-knife-attack-in-China-in-two-months.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ths.html</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "You can turn on the locals news in any major metro area and there's almost always a story about someone being shot. That is unheard of in other civilized countries." Is it? The last time I checked the people of Mexico were considered civilized and it seems that a dozen people are being shot there everyday. My point in the earlier post was that there are places where shootings happen more frequently than others. I'm not so naive as to think that there is gun fire from time to time here in San Francisco, but as others have pointed out violent crimes happen everywhere, guns or not.
Originally Posted By Mr X Pulling up a bizarre and highly unusual incident from 2 years ago in Japan is pretty weak Spokker. The violent crime rate in Japan is statistically nil, as I think you well know. Your arguments are usually much better than that...it's pretty unreasonable to try and argue the point that America has a huge crime problem, and gun proliferation plays a part in that.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The violent crime rate in Japan is statistically nil, as I think you well know." Though it's far lower than here, but to say it's "statistically nil" is a bit of an exaggeration. The stats below are old, but for the sake of comparison here they are: "In terms of how it compares internationally, according to Bloomberg, ‘Japan's crime rate remains low by international standards, with 1.1 homicides per 100,000 people in 2005 compared with 3.5 in France, 3.2 in the UK and 5.6 in the US, according to official statistics.’" <a href="http://www.japaninc.com/jin469" target="_blank">http://www.japaninc.com/jin469</a>
