Originally Posted By vbdad55 1, 3 6 or 12 or 16 -- behavior usually doesn't change much if the parenting stinks as in gurgitoy2's post -- in fact it gets worse with age. My kids have always traveled as have others I know on this board - and behaved fine at all ages, because 1/ they are used to travelling and being out in public places 2/ they understand behavior and consequences ( not being "I'm going to leave you in the restaurant "...) Unfortunately it seems parenting skills are low on the list of priorities for many today-- it's cooler to be a friend than a parent and easier to do nothing than to be the bad guy when necessary....and easier to say, I worked all day, I'm too tired. case in point..... highlighted by a tragedy we just had in the burb next to mine....a parent threw a drinking party for their teenager and their friends under the guise it was better to know where they are than to have them running the streets. Cool parent syndrome. The result that evening was a horrific car crash with 4 HS kids age 14 - 17 dead , 2 more in critical condition, only the driver...another parent who was 2x the legal limit survived.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn ... in addition to that tragedy... a friend of mine has a 5yr old nephew that has had 18 (yes 18) heart attacks and is currently on a heart-lung machine awaiting a heart transplant. It's stories like that above that makes those heart transplants possible. Justice balanced.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Way too many people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions. Working at a school, I see it. I'm referring to the parents. My husband is Republican, always complaining about those lily livered democrats. But yes, GW embarasses my husband.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <... in addition to that tragedy... a friend of mine has a 5yr old nephew that has had 18 (yes 18) heart attacks and is currently on a heart-lung machine awaiting a heart transplant. It's stories like that above that makes those heart transplants possible. Justice balanced.< I would hardly call that justice for the parents of the kids who thought their kids were at a sleepover at a friends house and the parents allowed what they did. I do think organ donation is a wonderful thing....but justice ? I don't get that logic at all --- the person in the wrong was the parent and the parent driving -- they lost nothing, neither kids nor themselves -- they murdered ( IMHO) 4 other kids - maybe 6 before it's over --
Originally Posted By sherrytodd My son when he was three tried to pull the I'm going to act like a maniac in a restaurant. We had already ordered and DS wouldn't listen. After he threw a chip across the table I asked the waiter for the check and DH promptly took DS to the car while I waited for them to wrap up our food to go. That was the last time he acted out in a restaurant. It's been good behavier ever since. Kids will always try to test boundries. Many times I think they've learned to do it in public places because Mom and Dad either (a) won't punish them in public for fear of making a scene (like their kids aren't already), (b) don't want to end the night out or (c) allow the bad behavior as a strange treat of some kind.
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<please explain the justice in this to me>>> Can't explain that. There's no justice to the death of a child in the care of an irresponsible adult. We're not here to be their best friends. We're here to make sure they are safe and grow up to be responsible and caring adults. My son is currently mad at me because I've told him he is not old enough yet to ride his bike by himself to school. I think we live to far from the school. He told me this morning that I am the meanest mom in the world. Sure it breaks my heart whenever he says that, but it sure would be worse if he got hit by a car on the way to school because I gave in to make him happy.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey My parents were very strict when I was growing up - I couldn't stay out late, couldn't date when most of my friends were dating, etc. When I was a kid, it drove me nuts, and I thought had the most ridiculous parents on the planet - none of my friends had to adhere to the rules I had to. Now that I'm 33, I look back on their rules and I am so very grateful that they were as strict as they were. I've got a good job, I own my own home and I've never been in any trouble with the law, and I know it has everything to do with the way they brought me up. When your son is older, and when he realizes you make your decisions in order to protect him, he'll respect and love you more than anything in the world. My mother is my best friend and, if my dad were still here, I know he and I would be closer than ever.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 My oldest - now 22 years old and a college senior still tells people that when home last summer and she called at 1 AM to say she was staying at someones' house, when I asked who I did not like the answer and told her she had to come home if she was staying with us for the summer. She groused at the time big time about she was an adult - not in HS anymore etc etc etc....our neighbors across the street also made their daughter come home solidfying our positions as the meanest, stupidest parents in existance. later that evening she got a call that one of her 'friends' was in jail - after they decided to go out for a beer run and hit a semi truck -- no one killed thank God, but two injured and one still without a license for a DUI. She doesn't grouse any more -
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn maybe i should use a word like 'fate' or something. Without tragic death, there isn't the opportunity to save another life.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< Another reason why I won't bring my kids to Disney until they're at least 6 >>> Good, stay away as long as you can. More room for me and my 10 month old, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 12 year old!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <maybe i should use a word like 'fate' or something. Without tragic death, there isn't the opportunity to save another life.< that one I agree with - that at least some good comes out of the awfulness
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Parenting is very easy. Yes, I said it, E-A-S-Y. I have this philosophy that has worked with at least my four oldest kids. The other two are a little young, but they too will do fine. All that crap about public displays of bad behavior, temper tantrums, whatever...and getting mad because other parents don't make THEIR kids to this or that, or just whatever else you want to throw in, to me can be simplified in TWO things. Number 1. Do everything you do as a parent out of LOVE, and make sure your child GROWS UP, from day one, knowing beyond any shadow of a doubt that you love them. Your actions will dictate this, not your words. Number 2. Be the alpha to your kids, be in control, be the head and leader of the pack. If you DON'T, they will and they really don't want to be because they will flounder and wander and lack direction. In other words, out of love, raise your children as a parent, you can be a friend or buddy later in their lives. It really IS that easy, as long as you do it out of love. Give just as much positive reinforcement and encouragement as you do negative. Now as a bonus, touching on something vbdad said... Take your kids WITH you, take them out to eat, take them to ball games, take them to Disney at a very young age even. Use these times to teach them what is and what is not acceptable behavior in public places. They will surprise you, if you have laid the ground work. Bonus #2 Consistency. NEVER, and I repeat NEVER say, "If you do that again I will..." No, they did it THIS time, they need to know that is was inappropriate. There won't be a next time if you teach them not to do it again, here, now, every time, anywhere. Don't let them act one way at home and another way in public. Give the same direction the same way for the same poor behaviour every time all the time, and guess what? They will stop doing whatever it is, and stop quickly. And guess what else? They will MIND you. OMG it is sooo complicated I know. One thing I really believe in very strongly, if you do this out of love and love them, making sure there is no questioning to how much you love them, they will want to mind and want to please you and want to earn your approval. It's working for my four oldest, and I am sure that the next two are falling into place as well. I realize it will get more difficult when they are teenagers, but guess what? It won't be as bad as other kids who have had little or inconsistent direction in their lives from day one. Of that I am sure.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Chris -- nice post ! And yes I can tell you almost no matter what you fo when they are 15 - 17 or so, you will become the stupidest person on earth. You will be mean because you won't let them do what some others are allowed to, you will be told that you treat them like children, on a real bad day that they hate you, etc etc etc -- the good news it seems is that if you follow the guidlines you list above at 15- 17 like you did when they were 8 or 10 or 4 -- they come back around. Around sophomore year of college ( and you see signs sooner) - you suddenly become smarter again, you actions yopu will be told aren't really all that unreasonable, and that now 20 year old or so will tell you that you need to stay on those 15-17's like you did to them, because it was the right thing ! When you hear these words from them, you will know they are now grown up. Now in my case this was a little easier with my kids 10 years apart -- for you, you are going to have one heck of a stretch -- LOL !!!!!
Originally Posted By sherrytodd <<<Now as a bonus, touching on something vbdad said... Take your kids WITH you, take them out to eat, take them to ball games, take them to Disney at a very young age even. Use these times to teach them what is and what is not acceptable behavior in public places. They will surprise you, if you have laid the ground work.>>> Full agreement here. We've hired a sitter for our son once in his life. We've taken him with us everywhere we've gone. I've never really understood people who have children and then spend all their time trying to ditch them. Especially when the parents take vacations without their children. It's like their telling their kids that they're really not entirely part of the family.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< for you, you are going to have one heck of a stretch >>> I live in one hell of a stretch now... lol It's going to be tough I know, bring it on.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost You guys get way to defensive if someone says that they prefer not to bring their children to WDW until they are older. Quite frankly you have got to differentiate between someone expressing their own personal preference as opposed to thinking they are criticizing those that do differently. I didn't take my kids until they were 6 & 8 years old. This was not because I thought they might not act well or even might not grasp the experience at that young an age. It's fine to bring a 10 month old to WDW as long as one is able to understand that the child isn't reacting to WDW per se, they are reacting to bright lights and the sense of excitement. The same thing you could find at a carnival. Back to the point, I didn't bring them earlier because I didn't have the financial ability at the time. Later I felt that it was fortunate that the event happened as it did because I felt at that age they were able to understand and grasp the big picture that is WDW. Does that mean that I think it is wrong in every instance to bring younger children? Of course not and I am happy for anyone that is lucky enough to be able to afford to do that. I was only able to take them there, as a family, twice before they went off to college. Once at the age I mentioned and the second time as tweens. I will be taking them all again next February but this time they are 34 and 32 with husbands and children in tow. The grandkids will be 6, 6, and 8. Imagine that!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<< Quite frankly you have got to differentiate between someone expressing their own personal preference as opposed to thinking they are criticizing those that do differently. >>> Yeah....riiiiight. Take your own advice Gofferyernmost. I wasn't being defensive. I was merely... how did you put it... <<< expressing their [my] own personal preference >>> . Honestly Goofyernmost... live and let live man.
