Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<To say taht a parent is selfish and boorish because they have children that cuold interfere with YOUR vacation is inconsiderate and boorish on your part.>> A parent is only selfish and boorish if they let a child's behavior get out of hand and it interferes with my vacation. A few years ago we were having dinner at Cinderella's Royal Table. A family was in there with two children who were obviously up past their bedtime and were miserable. They screamed bloody blue murder for almost the entire meal. If you child is that disruptive, it's your job to leave and allow me to enjoy my dinner in peace. I know Disney is a family park and I don't expect to have a completely quiet, peaceful vacation. Kids are kids and they act like kids. At the same time, if a child is miserable and disruptive, I shouldn't have to sit through it.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I totally agree with these last two posts. I am shocked Byron that you think kids shouldn't be taken to the parks at a young age...no wait, I'm not shocked, in fact that does make sense coming from you. However, as soon as you are an uncle, you may change your toon...I mean tune.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <You guys get way to defensive if someone says that they prefer not to bring their children to WDW until they are older. Quite frankly you have got to differentiate between someone expressing their own personal preference as opposed to thinking they are criticizing those that do differently. < It is our opinion and we are entitled to it just like you are to yours. That is not being defensive, it is explaining a point. However you don't seem to be able to deal with that unless it is your point. We've said our peace and if you disagree - really after the last go around with you knowing all - I could care less
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < I was merely expressing the other side and trying myself to prevent an all out battle. I don't think some of you realize how condescending some of these posts can be.< no you went out of your way to tell 3 of us we are way to defensive -- and if you read the posts we did not tell anyone they had to do what we did, we explained why we did what we did and the fact that it worked for us...just because that doesn't fit with how you handled your world doesn't make us defensive..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Now those two answers being said, I reiterate one more time goofy, my answers and those of others who share the same philosphy are no more right than yours....but we have the same right to post our reasoning behind it and explain why we think it worked for us as you do without being called defensive and condescending and what not... by all means state your points, but don't put other people down because you disagree...just not going to let that slide and turn into the same kind of mess like last time. You could have stated your reasoning without the judgemental comments.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <A parent is only selfish and boorish if they let a child's behavior get out of hand and it interferes with my vacation< you're right on Nikki -- and that interfering behavior can come from a 6 month old child or a 16 year old child -- age is not an overriding factor of behavior that crosses the line into infringing on others vacations. I have had that behavior both me at WDW from very young kids crying in shows and parents won't leave the show, to middle school and teenage brats that completely run their parents and do what they want
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<To say taht a parent is selfish and boorish because they have children that cuold interfere with YOUR vacation is inconsiderate and boorish on your part.>> Uhm ... no, it isn't. It's a fact. BTW, do you enjoy perceived insults even where they don't exist? Just curious. <<What give you or anybody the right to say who can go to the parks? If I want to go with my kids, then I'll go with my kids.>> Go back and R-E-A-D what was written by me. I never said you or anyone else can't bring their children to the parks. I said what simply is a fact. Babies, infants and toddlers cry, scream, screetch, urinate, defacate, spit up, vomit at any time. That kind of behavior isn't appropriate in places like theaters or show-type ride experiences or fine dining locations. Why? Because the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of a selfish parent who doesn't want to ride without their SO or doesn't want to bring a nanny or baby-sitter or puts their child in a situation like that to begin with. Unless you want to argue that your brat belongs wherever you want to bring them at whatever time and damn the rest ... that's fine if you believe that. I'll just label you selfish and boorish and move on. <<If you want to tell people when they should be allowed to go, then you need to be prepared for other people to tell you when and WHERE you can go, if you follow me. >> Nobody tells me when and where I can or can't go. Nobody. <<Freedom is for all, not just those who think it applies ONLY to them.>> It seems to me that you favor anarchy to freedom.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<you're right on Nikki -- and that interfering behavior can come from a 6 month old child or a 16 year old child -- age is not an overriding factor of behavior that crosses the line into infringing on others vacations. I have had that behavior both me at WDW from very young kids crying in shows and parents won't leave the show, to middle school and teenage brats that completely run their parents and do what they want>> Yes, oh tiara-wearing crossdressing pal. It has nothing to do with age. I've had far more disturbing incidents with adults than children of ANY age. But my point is simply that there are places where certain aged children shouldn't be. It may be fine to take kids of any age to WDW, and I believe it is although I happen to think ages 5-8 is about the perfect time for most. But it's not fine to take an infant into the American ADventure, have it scream endlessly and have mommy and daddy sit there like a pair of paperweights. It may be fine to take a 6-year-old to the California Grill, but it's not OK to sit there and ruin other peoples' dinner when the kid decides to yell, throw things, run around tables etc It may be fine to take your 10-year-old to the pool, but it's not OK for you to leave them jumping, swimming and splashing in the jacuzzi. ... I could go on and on, but I think you see where I am going. Far too many parents feel that having a child gives them carte blanche for any kind of behavior. It doesn't.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost vbdad55 have it your way. Your right! What can I say. I'm sorry. Man what an idiot I am. I give up. Please feel free to put down anything I say. >>>You could have stated your reasoning without the judgemental comments.<<< Good advice! However I believe that I have stated before that it is impossible to have an opinion with being judgemental. That's how our opinions are formed. You are judgemental (especially about anything I post) I am judgemental (apparently about everything that disagrees with me), Let's face it we all are. Let me repeat, I will continue to call it as I see it. If you don't agree you don't have to, but, I will comment. Accept that and we can continue to have discussions back and forth. If not we will continue to waste space here on LP in an effort to see which one of us will have the last word. It is getting tired.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost it is impossible to have an opinion with being judgemental. Should have read... it is impossible to have an opinion without being judgemental.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Unfortunatly the parents of overtired, disruptive children also paid big bucks to enjoy their vacation. But being parents, they should know now to handle their children. Prime Time: We were in a room with tables for about 20-25. Our table of 3 was the only one not part of a very large family gathering. Their loudness made it a little hard for us to talk, but they were having a great time, and that's what we're all there for. Then 2 of them, both at least 45-50 and probably brother and sister, started throwing spitballs. That was disgusting behavior, and there were no children there to blame.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle ^^^ Today I went to a theme park and took my 5-year-old nephew on a Batman simulator ride. As soon as the ride "took off" a 20-something guy deliberately took his belt off, which stopped the motion - but we all had to watch the movie until the end, with no motion, which was tedious to say the least. My nephew just shook his head and said "that was naughty". I'm pretty sure everyone else on the ride would have much rathered be in there with my nephew and the other kids, who were all well behaved, rather than that clown! Even if all kids were banned from Disney World, there's no guarantee that your trip won't be interrupted by someone else's behaviour ...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < It may be fine to take a 6-year-old to the California Grill, but it's not OK to sit there and ruin other peoples' dinner when the kid decides to yell, throw things, run around tables etc It may be fine to take your 10-year-old to the pool, but it's not OK for you to leave them jumping, swimming and splashing in the jacuzzi. ... I could go on and on, but I think you see where I am going. < and you are absolutely right -- it is the behavior that should generate the reaction from the parents - regardless of age --
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <vbdad55 have it your way. Your right! What can I say. I'm sorry. Man what an idiot I am. I give up. Please feel free to put down anything I say. < put the martyr card down, I and others are tired of the act. Maybe I can do the 'mature' thing and open another thread- rip you for 500 words or so - then close the thread so you can;t respond -- ring a bell ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Again, have all the opinions you want, but the minute you start the same put downs of posters who disagree with you, I too will call them as I see them as you put it. If you think young kids shouldn't go - fine and list the reasons - but to always have to add subjective opinions of the people who have opposing opinions is what I and others object to. None of the posters were being defensive - just stating opinions - that you proceeded to call condescending. Maybe there is another issue here - I don't know. In your post you state you couldn't afford to take your kids when they were young - I surely am not going to apologize because I can. My parents couldn't afford to take me anywhere.. that should have nothing to do with the issue of whether young kids should be at WDW. My net opinion, and others I read here continues to be -- parents have to use judgement as to where they take certain age children situation wise while at WDW or in their own neighborhood - they have to know their own kids limits - they have to act responsibly if the children are acting up and bothering other people -- this is whether at WDW or anywhere else. Each child is different - and this rule should be followed whether the kids are 6 months or 16 years old. I fail to see how this statement or others made here are condescending. Point out the condescending part of this stance and I will gladly address
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I had a big long response ready to go and then I decided, what's the use. All it amounts to is a continuation of a feud that never should have started to begin with. I have had no other real problems on this board and I would like to continue in the same light hearted vane as when I started (i.e. Goofyernmost). In the total scheme of things, there are so many bigger things in this world to worry about other than whether or not one should bring little children to WDW. A personal choice, by the way! The problem stems from what I can only figure is a 180 degree difference in most everything we have to say. That makes it seem like I am zeroing in on you. I am not. I try not to be nasty in my posts but perhaps sometimes I am blinded by the light. Anyway, I wish to stop this foolishness and move on. I will still express my opinion and I guess I can't do anything about the obvious fact that it is taken as a personal attack occasionally. That is not what I intended it to be but when one is not talking face to face it is pretty hard to put tone in the printed word. One last comment in an effort to defend myself. I have never expressed an opposing opinion to anyone without explaining myself. I can only think that I am being confused with someone else.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad You know my brother-in-law is a person who can dish it, but can't take it. And when it comes back his way he accuses others of taking things personal and getting defensive. I wouldn't change a diaper on POTC under and circumstances. If it were a thing where the byproduct of digestion seeps out the leg opening, I would wrap the kid in something, perhaps a lap pad or blanket of some kind, and wait till the end.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I say that when a diaper says for 10 pounds or more, it ought to hold that much before it has to be changed. That would be a long boat ride.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad 10 lbs. LOL!!! That might be the exception that would have to be changed.
Originally Posted By markedward (Pretending there's no feud taking over this thread, and sticky more or less to the original subject ..." TALL wrote <If you shell out big bucks for a wonderful, fun, relaxing trip, the last thing you want is crying, screaming babies dampening your experience.> There is absolutely no age limit on inconsiderate. Standing in line for SM late at night with two different pairs of 20ish adults who spoke non-stop, loudly, off and on their cell phones, with liberal use of profanity was no fun. Having our water front meal at Blue Bayou while teens in one PotC boat yelled back and forth with teens in another wasn't so great either. Guests in their 20s and 30s who scream at the top of their lungs just for the fun of it while in the stretching room of HM or sitting right behind me on ToT have a different idea of how much it's ok to impose on others. And as to the original, actual topic. I too would not have done what the family did, but I can bring myself to give them the benefit of the doubt. I've gotten all the way into the park before realizing I didn't have a park map. And I have no clue where the bathrooms are in that part of the park. I know there's one near the Matterhorn. The family could have changed the diaper on a sidewalk or a restaurant table, but they chose to wait until they were in a dark, semi-private place. I and my family make a point of being considerate of others. People often do things we wouldn't do. But not all of those things are a sign of the end of civilization. From the description, the poster seems not to have seen poop or private parts, or to have smelled anything. So, no harm, no foul.
