Originally Posted By mawnck >> I suspect that clause was put in there just as a face-saving gesture to those that would complain about the significant cost that's already been incurred to prep for the Feb 17 transition, but with the expectation that few stations would elect to do so.<< There seem to be a lot of "expectations" here that have no basis in reality. It's obvious that a lot of Congressweasels think it's really just a "switch," like the TV guys just push this big red "D" button and then they're digital. Dumb old Congress. AVS has been discussing the issue some more, noting that the major markets have a lot of stations actually owned by the networks (rather than just affiliated), and the networks aren't going to want to get on Obama's wrong side. So the FCC guy might have it wrong, or else might be talking about only smaller stations. The thing is, the whole DTV setup, pre- and post-transition, was designed from the get-go for an all-at-once transition, and not for a few stations at a time. Here in LA, for instance, it's gridlock. All available channels are occupied by either an analog or a digital station. There are several stations that can't move because there's another station on their final DTV channel. A specific example: KRCA can't move to their final assignment at 35 because KMEX is there, and will be until they turn off their own analog at 34. Thus KMEX - the #1 Spanish language channel, has incentive to stay on with analog as long as possible, just to mess with KRCA, a much smaller Spanish-language channel and direct competitor. If Congress forces stations off the "public safety" and other "sold" channels, then KRCA is off the air completely; both their digital and their analog are above Channel 51. We could also lose our DTV signals for CBS, ABC and Fox, an analog PBS, and a couple other stations. Multiply that by the rest of the country, and you start to get the picture. Lawsuits will fly. But as for the country as a whole - about a third of the full-power analog stations in the US are either already off the air, or have informed the FCC that they will be off by February 18th no matter what Congress does. And those are just the ones that have been posted on the FCC website as of yesterday. Chances are they're behind on processing all the applications, and it's a lot worse than that. And the bill will have a hard time passing if they amend it to include *forced* analog, since most of the industry groups "supporting" it have specified that it's only because it allows them to transition early. I'll tell you this. I knew the transition would be interesting, but I never dreamed it would provide THIS much entertainment.
Originally Posted By mawnck It's official in San Diego ... they ain't waiting: <a href="http://www.sbe36.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=278&Itemid=1" target="_blank">http://www.sbe36.org/index.php...Itemid=1</a> Here are some tea leaves to read: The NBC station is 76% owned by NBC, and the Fox station is owned by Tribune ... who own major stations in the top 5 markets, including KTLA (Channel 5) in Los Angeles.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I'll tell you this. I knew the transition would be interesting, but I never dreamed it would provide THIS much entertainment. >>> Follow-up question: when will we actually switch to the metric system?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Follow-up question: when will we actually switch to the metric system?<< As soon as they figure out how to adapt our monetary system to it.
Originally Posted By avromark Well the power used for analogue transmission (especially higher power UHF stations) can add up to quite a bill. Or these people could just get Sat, or Cable. I wonder if there are people who get the rebate for the box, who don't really need the box?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I wonder if there are people who get the rebate for the box, who don't really need the box? >>> I'd guess that quite a few did, especially since some cable providers were spreading false information about the switch necessitating upgrades to digital cable. I wonder how many customers of such cable companies figured that they'd outsmart the cable company by getting a federally-subsidized converter box and sticking with analog cable?
Originally Posted By avromark Hey at least your gov't is offering subsidies (although our change over will be later in typical CRTC style)
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I'd guess that quite a few did, especially since some cable providers were spreading false information about the switch necessitating upgrades to digital cable.<< In a lot of cases the only false thing was that the transition was causing it. Quite a few cable systems *are* taking the opportunity to shut off their analog cable service, or at least curtail it back to nothin'. The problem that analog cable customers are now running into is the cable systems cropping the sides off all the widescreen broadcasts - including the ones that shouldn't be cropped.
Originally Posted By mawnck Seen on another board: SUPERBOWL DELAYED FOUR MONTHS A Few Players Not Ready
Originally Posted By alexbook Anybody else find it odd that the digital broadcasts include the announcements about the upcoming digital conversion? I mean, think about it. It's a bit like somebody on stage saying, "If you can't hear me, raise your hand."
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Anybody else find it odd that the digital broadcasts include the announcements about the upcoming digital conversion?<< Unfortunately, the rules don't make an exception for DTV channels - even those that aren't available on analog. How about the fact that they're promoting the snot out of 2-17-09, when it's all but assured that at least some stations won't be signing off that day? Also required by the rules that are still in effect until they're officially changed.
Originally Posted By mawnck THEY DID IT! The delay has passed. New day for analog shutdown is June 12th. What remains to be seen is how many stations will actually wait until June. About 600 either have informed the FCC that they're sticking with February 17th regardless, or else they've already transitioned. They're mostly in smaller markets so far, but we got 2 weeks to go and more applications are being posted daily ...
Originally Posted By mawnck The details, from our friends at the FCC: Stations that plan to shut off analog on February 17th have to inform the FCC by February 9th. Informings prior to today don't count. They have to keep their DTV on their temporary, pre-transition DTV frequency at their temporary, pre-transition DTV power level, unless the FCC gives them specific permission to move. Stations that plan to shut off analog on February 17th have to run 5-minute hourly crawls saying so, starting February 10th. Stations that planned to shut off analog *between* now and February 17th need to reaffirm to the FCC that they're still going to do so. Stations that have *already* shut off analog can fire it up again after getting permission from the FCC. Stations that want to shut off analog between March 14th and June 11th must get permission. Stations that want to shut off analog between February 18 and March 13 are SOL, unless they have (dun, dun, dunnnnnn!!) equipment failure. Everybody got that? Given the circumstances it's amazingly reasonable for something from the guvmint, but it's still going to be a big mess.
Originally Posted By alexbook According to the news stories I've heard, the FCC has 2 million pending requests for converter coupons to deal with. I haven't heard anything about whether they're going to try to hand out more coupons. Any idea? ----- I've been thinking about the "TV is not a right" argument, and why it doesn't feel right to me. I think the problem is not that I feel I have a right to TV, but that I have a right to expect that the TV I bought will continue to work. If I couldn't get a digital converter (because the FCC ran out of coupons) and my TV stopped working, could I take the set back to store I bought it from and get my money back?
Originally Posted By EdisYoda <<If I couldn't get a digital converter (because the FCC ran out of coupons) and my TV stopped working, could I take the set back to store I bought it from and get my money back?>> That's part of the problem. I work in an appliance and electronics chain in the midwest that sells these converter boxes. Our normal price on them is $59.97, which means that the customer would still need to pay $19.97 plus tax for the box that we carry (assuming they have a coupon). If someone wants to keep watching over-the-air TV on a non-digital TV, they need the box, with or without the coupon. The other part of the problem is that digital is either on or off. There is no snow. So, if you're in a semi-dead reception area, you won't get the digital signal. You have to upgrade to cable or satellite. People don't want to hear that. I sold a digital TV and high quality indoor digital antenna to a family last month and they were returned because they couldn't get a signal. We exchanged the TV for another one, and the same problem. They were convinced that it was the TV. It wasn't. They lived in a dead spot. The only way they would get a signal after the transition would either be with an expensive external antenna or to use cable or satellite. But we couldn't convince them of of that, because "we got a signal before!" People have to listen to the experts and bite the bullet, or just not have TV.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 there are dead spots for cell phones as well- not sure that issue will ever go away.
Originally Posted By alexbook ^--The difference being that it's highly unusual to suddenly find that the place you live is a cell phone dead spot, when it wasn't one the day before. That's what's happening to these folks.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>The difference being that it's highly unusual to suddenly find that the place you live is a cell phone dead spot, when it wasn't one the day before. That's what's happening to these folks.<< One of the main reasons this is happening is that the analog signals are still on the air screwing things up. Once all the DTV transmitters are up to full power and the analog interference is gone, things are going to improve. >>Our normal price on them is $59.97, which means that the customer would still need to pay $19.97 plus tax for the box that we carry (assuming they have a coupon).<< $60 is on the high side for a converter box. There are some available for $40 (free after coupon). Sounds like the fault lies with your store as much as anything. I sure hope it's at least a major brand. >>If I couldn't get a digital converter (because the FCC ran out of coupons) and my TV stopped working, could I take the set back to store I bought it from and get my money back?<< They'll sell you a converter without the coupon. >>The difference being that it's highly unusual to suddenly find that the place you live is a cell phone dead spot, when it wasn't one the day before. That's what's happening to these folks.<< Should we then replace your VHS machine because you can't get VHS tapes anymore? I'm still not convinced that "these folks" exist in significant numbers. Within that 5.5% (or whatever the latest number is) are *people who have converter boxes but haven't hooked them up yet *people who could get a converter box but refuse to just out of stubbornness *people who think the boxes are spying on them *people without TVs *people who live in rural areas where they still get their signals from analog translators that aren't shutting down *people who are too oblivious to notice all the PSAs and notifications (can they even operate a TV?) That leaves people who want a box and just can't afford one, and people who are so technically bewildered that they can't grasp the basics of what they need to do. These can be taken care of by charities, neighbors helping neighbors, and the wide assortment of outreach programs that every agency and organization in the world are currently operating, not to mention the stations themselves. Senior citizens, buy the way, are statistically the MOST likely to be prepared for the transition, by a comfortable margin. Latest Nielsen figures. And even if NOTHING I've said above is true ... if the entire 5.5% want to transition but can't, and the station coverage areas really are shrinking, how is a 4-month delay going to help? The coverage areas will be the same, the elderly will be even elderlier, and the supply of boxes will run out at the end of February (like the retailers had quite reasonably planned all along), just as the new coupons are shipping. Plus it'll be the beginning of hurricane and tornado season. This is an improvement?
