Originally Posted By DAR Hate break out this fact, but criminals don't really care about the law, so if you ban guns from bars and restaurants chances are they're going to break that law. I mean really if you're a criminal and you see a sign that says guns are not allowed on the premises, are you going to hang your head and say fiddlesticks?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 That's not the point. The point is regular, law-abiding people often do stupid things when they're drunk. They get angry at people they normally are friendly with sometimes. There's a reason "bar fight" is a common phrase. It's one thing when it's done with fists. Add in people who are packing, and I think you see where I'm going with this.
Originally Posted By DAR I live in a state that probably has the most bars per capita: County Population_2007 Taverns Taverns per 10,000 residents Iron 6,307 79 125.3 Florence 4,768 34 71.3 Vilas 22,083 139 62.9 Price 14,465 84 58.1 Oneida 36,243 176 48.6 Forest 9,807 46 46.9 Sawyer 17,088 77 45.1 Bayfield 15,039 66 43.9 Rusk 14,655 64 43.7 Door 27,811 115 41.4 Langlade 20,302 83 40.9 Oconto 37,466 148 39.5 Buffalo 13,812 51 36.9 Washburn 16,682 61 36.6 Shawano 41,072 147 35.8 Douglas 43,721 149 34.1 Crawford 16,998 56 32.9 Marinette 42,571 140 32.9 Kewaunee 20,533 66 32.1 Taylor 19,312 61 31.6 Ashland 16,296 51 31.3 Adams 20,675 64 31 Burnett 16,321 50 30.6 Sauk 58,477 176 30.1 Lincoln 29,659 85 28.7 Marquette 14,982 41 27.4 Lafayette 15,819 43 27.2 Juneau 26,548 71 26.7 Waushara 24,766 66 26.6 Clark 33,490 88 26.3 Waupaca 52,045 132 25.4 Monroe 43,112 103 23.9 Iowa 23,561 56 23.8 Green Lake 18,735 44 23.5 Grant 48,792 113 23.2 Walworth 100,800 223 22.1 Manitowoc 80,928 179 22.1 Jefferson 80,213 176 21.9 Chippewa 60,402 130 21.5 Portage 68,272 145 21.2 Columbia 55,280 114 20.6 Vernon 29,014 58 20 Outagamie 173,703 346 19.9 Wood 73,944 145 19.6 Barron 45,606 89 19.5 Dodge 87,786 171 19.5 Calumet 44,323 86 19.4 Marathon 129,958 249 19.2 Sheboygan 114,504 214 18.7 Pierce 39,577 73 18.4 Green 35,727 64 17.9 La Crosse 111,411 198 17.8 Jackson 19,856 35 17.6 Trempealeau 27,815 49 17.6 Fond du Lac 99,124 171 17.3 Ozaukee 85,602 144 16.8 Polk 44,265 74 16.7 Winnebago 162,154 262 16.2 Kenosha 162,921 257 15.8 Brown 243,132 374 15.4 Milwaukee 951,252 1459 15.3 Pepin 7,383 11 14.9 Racine 195,099 284 14.6 Washington 128,211 181 14.1 Dunn 42,329 56 13.2 Dane 476,785 625 13.1 Rock 159,623 203 12.7 Eau Claire 97,406 122 12.5 Waukesha 379,333 461 12.2 Richland 18,142 22 12.1 St Croix 81,131 95 11.7 Menominee 4,616 And the bigger problem is drunk driving not people bringing in guns.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<And the bigger problem is drunk driving not people bringing in guns.>> So ate you saying you're in favor of allowing a bunch of drunks to carry guns now? You won't trust them to drive home, but you'll trust them with a deadly weapon??
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <And the bigger problem is drunk driving not people bringing in guns. > Well, good grief - bacterial meningitis is usually a bigger problem if you get it than viral meningitis, but that doesn't mean the latter isn't a problem. Drunken people in bars having guns on them is a problem. That's why there are laws against it in states where the gun lobby doesn't call all the shots (pun intended).
Originally Posted By DAR No I'm only going by this state and bringing guns into bars has never been a major issue.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Perhaps because Wisconsin, sensibly, doesn't allow it: <a href="http://www.howistheworldgoingtoend.com/2009/06/states-that-allow-guns-in-restaurants.html" target="_blank">http://www.howistheworldgoingt...nts.html</a> "Do not allow guns in their bars (states that will live the longest): 1. Arizona 2. Georgia 3. Illinois 4. Louisiana 5. Michigan 6. Mississippi 7. Montana 8. New Mexico 9. North Carolina 10. North Dakota 11. Ohio 12. South Dakota 13. Virginia 14. Wisconsin"
Originally Posted By DAR But even if it was allowed I think it's a little presumptious to think suddenly it would be like Tombstone or Deadwood.
Originally Posted By gadzuux All of this is completely valid, but it steers around a larger point - why is it that when republicans want to pander to their base, they invariably do it with the proverbial "god guns and gays"? What is it about the republican base that they always seem to resonate to these particular issues? And what's the link between opposing president Obama and rolling back state gun laws? I'm more than happy to lay it out - the republican party is primarily made up of two separate factions, a small core of wealthy titans that maintain their power by pandering to ignorance and fear. Ergo, their targets are the stupid and fearful. They deftly manipulate these people into supporting the very policies that oppress them. They have no money but they oppose any efforts to "redistribute wealth". They're the hardest hit when unemployment rises, but they oppose a jobs bill. They receive minimal - if any - healthcare, but they oppose efforts to make better healthcare more available and at a lower cost. The leadership of the party wants the current dire economic situation - largely attributable to their own actions and policies - to worsen even more in the belief that it will benefit them in the next election. They open the US election process to the floodgates of special interest money from multi-national corporations, with the assurance that the lions share will go to them. Why? Because they're bigger whores than the democrats - that's why - in a nutshell. They oppose unions. Why? Because unions do what they have always done - they shift the balance of power - if ever so slightly - towards the working people - the "middle class". And finally - they lie their weaselly black hearts out - again and again. in the past year alone, we've heard about "death panels", "socialist agendas" and "government takeover of healthcare/banks/automakers". And these are actual elected representatives saying this. If you believe any single one of those ridiculous claims, you're a first-class fool and deserve whatever you get. The problem is there are literally millions of these first-class fools, and they're proud of it. They stockpile guns and bullets for the upcoming revolution. They speak openly of their paranoid conspiracies involving internment camps. They show up at public rallies with guns strapped to their legs. They think "freedom" means the right to bear arms in a mob. Or a bar. Or the denny's just down the road. They congratulate themselves on their christianity while openly expressing their loathing of blacks, gays, jews, and yes - mormons. The gun nuts of Virginia and a hundred other backwaters are always going to do whatever they want. The bigger problem is that we're not expecting and demanding a greater level of responsibility from our elected officials. The reason for these sudden changes to status quo in Virginia is plain - the newly minted republican governor is pandering to his idiot hayseed base. It's his way of saying "thanks for your vote". As to how to do it, he chose to roll back discrimination laws for gays, and to permit people to carry loaded weapons into bars and restaurants. This could only come from the GOP.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "29 NEW! DAR Wed 2/24/2010 2:56p But even if it was allowed I think it's a little presumptious to think suddenly it would be like Tombstone or Deadwood. " There you go again, arguing against a proposition no one proposed. It's prudent nit to allow guns in bars because people get drunk there. And barfights happen, and it's best to limit them to fists.
Originally Posted By DAR So liberals, democrats and people who live in high falutin cities like NY and San Fran are much more superior than those rubes from the South or Middle America yeah that's not hateful.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<So liberals, democrats and people who live in high falutin cities like NY and San Fran are much more superior than those rubes from the South or Middle America yeah that's not hateful.>> F you. I've never said anything remotely insulting about the folks in your state, DAR, and never have most of the posters in WE. In fact, I've been to your state and find the folks who live there quite pleasant and friendly. They are not "rubes" nor are most of the folks I've met in South Carolina where my partner's mom lives. F you and your "high falutin cities" hate rhetoric against liberals. Guns and alcohol are a BAD combination, in ANY state. PERIOD.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "The reason for these sudden changes to status quo in Virginia is plain - the newly minted republican governor is pandering to his idiot hayseed base. It's his way of saying "thanks for your vote". As to how to do it, he chose to roll back discrimination laws for gays, and to permit people to carry loaded weapons into bars and restaurants. " I think you're right on that, especially since they were essentially his first acts. The gum law is unwise, but the other is saying to gay people "you really are lesser people than us, and if the good normal people don't want to hire you or live near you, that's perfectly understandable.". And it's saying to straights "gay people really are lesser than you, and you're right to view them that way."
Originally Posted By DAR <<It's prudent nit to allow guns in bars because people get drunk there. And barfights happen, and it's best to limit them to fists>> Okay but again the "law" won't stop it.
Originally Posted By DAR Post 34, I never said that YOU did or anyone else on WE does on a regular basis, but it is the attitude of a lot of liberal Americans, who have no idea what Laughing Place.com-Connecting Disney Fans Across the World is.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Post 34, I never said that YOU did or anyone else on WE does on a regular basis, but it is the attitude of a lot of liberal Americans...>> Stop right there. You cited San Francisco as one of those "high falutin cities" in your post. I've lived in San Francisco for over twenty years. We are progressive, yes. But we do NOT adhere to the perceptions and attitudes about other Americans that you claim we do. You aren't liberal. You don't live in NYC or San Francisco or any large progressive city. You don't know what the H you're talking about. F you and the conservative arrogant holier-than-thou horse you rode in on.
