Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It's not over. It won't ever be over until equality wins.> That's right. <30-39 split 50-50 25-29 60% voted No 18-24 66% No Change is coming, it just may take a little longer than it should.> That's absolutely right too. Wasn't it just 8 years ago when CA rejected equality by over 60%? This year it's only 51 or 52%? What does that tell you? Forget the courts, for a minute. If CA's constitution can be amended so easily, it can be amended just as easily the other way. In two years or four years this can be placed on the ballot again, and eventually we WILL have equality in CA (and later, everywhere). We have to fight for it. But if last night's Obama victory tells us nothing else, it tells us a). the arc of history is long, but it favors justice; b). fighting for justice can take a while but eventually it will happen. It wasn't that long ago that black people couldn't even sit at the same lunch counters as whites. Fight on, everybody.
Originally Posted By LadyKluck I don't even live in California and I'm really upset about this...if we did that would have been 2 more votes for 'no' (DH and I).
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf From BuleDevil's link in post 6 "In a four-month offensive, the LDS Church has deployed its faithful as partisans for California's Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that would ban gay marriage - the largest mobilization since the faith fought the Equal Rights Amendment three decades ago. In June, members were asked to "do all you can." And they have. As a result, the Salt Lake City-based church gets the credit and the blame for leading the cause. According to Californians Against Hate, Mormons have donated more than $19 million to the cause - nearly four out of five dollars raised." How proud they must be to be on the WRONG side of an issue AGAIN!! They fought against equal rights for women, they fought against equal rights for African Americans and now they are fighting against equal rights for homosexuals. If there is a more evil organization out there that masquerades as a good one, I don't know about it. Wolves in sheeps clothing.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>We have to fight for it. But if last night's Obama victory tells us nothing else, it tells us a). the arc of history is long, but it favors justice; b). fighting for justice can take a while but eventually it will happen. It wasn't that long ago that black people couldn't even sit at the same lunch counters as whites. Fight on, everybody.<< Hear hear. Last night was the loss of a battle, not the war. Bigotry won out over justice, but Americans won't stand for that forever. A younger generation felt their power last night, and they won't shy away from the challenge of fairness and equality, no way. And behind them is the next generation. Older bigotry will fade away, and already the margins have narrowed in just a few years. Time is on our side. Yes it is.
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Originally Posted By peeaanuut alot of people dont think that their religious beliefs contain biggotry or discrimination. That is why the bill passed. People that would normally be sensative to discrimination dont look at banning gay marriage as discrimination because their belief is based off their religious beliefs. its a sad tale really.
Originally Posted By markymouse Last night we learned that even a black man with a Muslim sounding name can be elected to the highest office in the land, as long as he makes clear that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. I wanted to be excited about Obama's elction. I wanted it to be the happiest, most exciting election ever. I really did. This election showed that black skin can not keep you from being President, and that is great. But a backbone would. I hope to get to a better place. But I'm still processing. Three years from now, lets see if gays can serve openly in the military. Lets see if ENDA passed a Congress controlled by Democrats. Lets see if gay people can sponsor their foreign born partners. Lets see if gay couples make any progress toward being recognized by the Social Security Administration. For now, I try to be very excited for my kids, because the oldest two are very excited about Obama. But it is a huge effort. OK. That's it. On with normal life. Deep breath.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo markymouse, change takes time. When my grandmother was born, african americans could not vote. When my mother was born, segregation was still legal. When I was born, the KKK still were strong, and when I visited the south, African Americans would walk into the gutter so whites could pass. And mixed races marriages were very much frowned upon. My children have been born into a world where a non-white man has been elected president. If we look at gay rights, it has only recently been acceptable to society for people to be gay, and things are evolving. My mom took me on protest marches for racial equality, I have marched for disability and children's rights. My mom is a homophobic bigot, and I sit on the fence for some of these issues. My children however are likely to have a more open view. so please raise your head, we are progressing.
Originally Posted By u k fan This is a sad day for everyone who believes in fairness and equality. I never thought I'd be ashamed of my Mormon heritage.
Originally Posted By PetesDraggin "I never thought I'd be ashamed of my Mormon heritage." I've been ashamed of mine for a long time now.
Originally Posted By Mr X "We caused Californians to rethink this issue," Proposition 8 strategist Jeff Flint said. Early in the campaign, he noted, polls showed the measure trailing by 17 points. "I think the voters were thinking, well, if it makes them happy, why shouldn't we let gay couples get married. And I think we made them realize that there are broader implications to society and particularly the children when you make that fundamental change that's at the core of how society is organized, which is marriage," he said.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I never thought I'd be ashamed of my Mormon heritage.<< Ditto that. This is a day I never fathomed I'd see, a day when my fellow Mormons have done something so wrong that I can no longer count myself among them. As a missionary, a gospel doctrine teacher, etc., I just never thought this day would come.
Originally Posted By LadyKluck I'm soooo glad I left the church when I was 16 when my mom told me I was old enough to make that decision. I'm just now realizing it may be the best decision I ever made...
Originally Posted By -em >>>>I never thought I'd be ashamed of my Mormon heritage<< and I'll add my name to that pile.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut but the question is this will you try to redirect the church, leave the church or accept that you might be concidered a rouge member and believe the portions you feel are correct and ignore the rest?
Originally Posted By -em >>will you try to redirect the church, leave the church or accept that you might be concidered a rouge member and believe the portions you feel are correct and ignore the rest?<< That door was shut and locked a very long time ago-The only connection I have anymore is that some of my family and friends are mormon and I still love them, despite what they believe.
Originally Posted By MOLLYSMOM Count me as another who would have voted a resounding NO had I been able. Things WILL change, of that I am sure...hopefully sooner than later. Persecution of ANYONE predicated upon their race, political affiliation, religion or sexual preference is WRONG...persecution when done under the banner of "religion" is FRIGHTENING.
Originally Posted By utahjosh This isn't persecution. Gay couples can still have most of the rights of married couples - and I urge them to fight for those rights they dont' have. But don't change what marriage is. Things will change, I'm sure of that too. Sad, but sure.
