Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "WDW Magic Kingdom's main entrance (I assume you are referring to the train stations?) is NOTHING like the one at Disneyland. Look at pictures of both." Nope, not at all
Originally Posted By bean "109 NEW! jmuboy Fri 10/17/2008 9:43a No color change. The Blue is the color they should be - historically accurate right? " you are right
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Me too. I am super thrilled with the prospect for the development of the Buena Vista Street / hub area, and the red car trolleys, and all of that. My only negative is the turnstile structure. I still hate that they can't seem to be more creative with it than just retreading the same old Disney/MGM Studios main entrance structure. Pretty, yes, Unique, no.> I'm with you on that. But I'm less concerned with the fact that it's not unique (only real Disney geeks probably know or care about that), but rather that it doesn't blend with the predominant Mission-style architecture beyond. Look at DL's turnstile area. They're no big deal, but they DO blend beautifully with just enough Victorian in them to match the Main Street just beyond. You've sort of been put in "Main Street mood" before you even enter Main Street. The same with the DHS and the street just beyond them. Buena Vista Street, however, looks primarily mission-style, rather than Deco or Moderne. I LIKE Deco and Moderne, but I think the turnstiles should "ease your transition" into the park rather than clash. Having said that, there are some new details I'm seeing in the artwork, like the "Elias Department Store" that look like they might have Deco or Moderne elements, so maybe it won't be the big clash I'm envisioning at present. But if Buena Vista Street is primarily Mission-style, why not subtle Mission elements in the turnstiles instead. That way it could be a smoother transition AND be unique.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> The big stuff that people said they hated (Orange Stinger, MM, etc) are still going to to be there, just dressed differently. << But getting them to be properly and professionally "dressed" has been, and is, half the battle. Structures like the Orange Stinger, Mulholland Madness and the Mailboomer have been not just far too Six Flag-ish in style and concept, but they've been inexcusably unattractive too. And while I still become uneasy about the idea of carnival games (or game booths) in a Disney park, I do admit that if such attractions have to be included, at least dress them up in a first-class manner. Based on the following model, I think the revamped park is moving -- finally moving! -- in that direction: <a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/dustysage/FridayVisions/2008/10-17-08/IMG_2260.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2260.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Agreed DW, I dont necessarily like that these things are still in the park, but if you are going to put them there, DO IT RIGHT!!!! Again, it wasnt just that they were there in the first place (although a huuuge factor) but that they looked like they were ship directly from SFMM and plopped in DCA. There was a reason why we called these attractions off the shelf because they really felt like it. Orange Stinger was given some effort, but still not enough. So now they are dressing up these attractions, giving them real themes and identities, even if the ride themselves are nothing to crowe about. Yeah, this park does seem to be moving in the right direction now.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "But getting them to be properly and professionally "dressed" has been, and is, half the battle. Structures like the Orange Stinger, Mulholland Madness and the Mailboomer have been not just far too Six Flag-ish in style and concept, but they've been inexcusably unattractive too." Agreed. "Again, it wasnt just that they were there in the first place (although a huuuge factor) but that they looked like they were ship directly from SFMM and plopped in DCA." Funny, from the drawings they still look like that to me. The dressing may be better, but c'mon, anyone knows a madmouse coaster when they see one.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Again Hans, if I had it my way, NONE of it would be there, trust me. I guess the decision was made, since its there, and they want to keep the parks ride capacity up until they come with something better, this was the compromise for now. From what I been reading, the MM may not even be there when the 2nd phase come (hopefully), so what's the point of overdoing an already weak attraction for something that will be gone within a decade anyway? And as for the swing ride, same thing. What other suggestions would you make to theme something like that any better other than outright getting rid of it? There's only so much that thse simple rides can be done to fit the theming of the place, I cant fault them for that, but having them there in the first place I can.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Before we get excited about this may be temporary, remember that abomination called Mickey's Toon Town Fair at WDW's MK started out as a temporary Mickey's Birthdayland.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^True Dave, but all we can do is HOPE it gets removed permanently sometime in a few years from now. From what I read, rumor or not, there was discussions to get rid of it NOW while they were renovating PP, but the consensus was they were afraid they get rid of too much, it would cut off capacity, so if that's the case I cant blame them. Like I said, I'm not necessarily defending them on having it at all, but what can you do? Somebody give you a lemon (in this case the old regieme), you do your best to turn it into lemonade and I honestly feel thats what they are trying to do.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Somebody give you a lemon (in this case the old regieme), you do your best to turn it into lemonade and I honestly feel thats what they are trying to do." I say, move GZ to where OS is. Remove JJ, OS, MaliBoomer, and MM completely.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<davewasbaloo: Before we get excited about this may be temporary, remember that abomination called Mickey's Toon Town Fair at WDW's MK started out as a temporary Mickey's Birthdayland.>> But Mickey's Birthdayland was a quick fill to provide SOME experience. It was “updated” to Mickey’s Starland before it finally became Mickey’s Toontown Fair AFTER the Disneyland Toontown’s success. Does DCA’s Mulholland Madness have to go through those iterations? Why go through the expense for ANOTHER poor limited experience?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Exactly. Personally I feel from the renderings that Orange Stinger is actually getting worse, same with the Army Man Parachutes replacing Maliboomer. This is all lipstick and the are is still a sow, just a more expensive one. And all the fan boys are frothing at the mouth for it. It just leaves me scratching my head frankly. The Victorian buildings and new games - this is ok. (though it still does not urge me to spend more time in PP). The Little Mermaid makes me want to throw up a little (if it were a highly themed ride through the history of California, then I would be uber excited). The entrance looks ok, but just an extension of Hollywood Pictures backlot. The only thing of interest to me is the Carsland area, that's it. And it is not really enough to make me want to fry 6000 miles for - I am more likely to take my tourist dollars to Tokyo (though the friendships in California are what will keep pulling us back). I cannot help but feel DCA has been going backwards since Eureka was scrapped and this is going to get worse instead of better.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And as for the swing ride, same thing. What other suggestions would you make to theme something like that any better other than outright getting rid of it?" I think the new theming is fine, and I agree that it's an improvement, but on the other hand I wasn't the one complaining about this ride to begin with. Given how outspoken the fan base was against PP, I'm surprised that folks here seemed to have warmed up to this stuff. I guess I find it somewhat ironic that there's so much gushing over this project while the real lack of content at this park is not being addressed. The overall scope of what lies ahead is impressive, yet I just can't seem to get excited about the specific things being planned. Most important for me is that none of the rides or attractions in the pipeline are really all that compelling.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And all the fan boys are frothing at the mouth for it. It just leaves me scratching my head frankly." My feelings exactly.
Originally Posted By dshyates I think the entrance is a great improvement. The changes to PP ARE, quite frankly, lipstick on a pig. My dream is that they would kill the pig and make bacon, but they aren't going to do that. I think the Fanboys are thrilled because it validates their opinion. Not that it makes it really any better.
Originally Posted By dshyates It does kill me that when people say, "Its not Disney enough." Disney thinks it means "more Mickey DAMMITT". When I don't believe that that is what they mean at all. The guests say they want NOS and Disney gives them PIXAR Bumper Cars and wonder why people keep complaining. Could somebody please go pull the mouses head out of his a$$.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "And as for the swing ride, same thing. What other suggestions would you make to theme something like that any better other than outright getting rid of it?" <<I think the new theming is fine, and I agree that it's an improvement, but on the other hand I wasn't the one complaining about this ride to begin with. Given how outspoken the fan base was against PP, I'm surprised that folks here seemed to have warmed up to this stuff.>> Dude, I dont how many times I can say this, yes, if I had it MY way it would be gone tomorrow!! I dont know how many times I can state this lol. But, IF I had my way so would PP . But, its not going anywhere, I accepted that fact. They are keeping rides like MM and OS around for capacity reasons and like it or not, it DOES represent PP. I dont plan to ride this stuff--okay maybe once lol--when it reopens. All I'm saying is its better they do something with it (unlike the first go around) other than nothing at all, thats all. But, if they say they will get rid of this stuff in time for another real E ticket attraction in time, I'm cool with that. I learn to avoid this stuff for 7 years, I can do it for a few more . <<I guess I find it somewhat ironic that there's so much gushing over this project while the real lack of content at this park is not being addressed. The overall scope of what lies ahead is impressive, yet I just can't seem to get excited about the specific things being planned. Most important for me is that none of the rides or attractions in the pipeline are really all that compelling.>> See, I like the new attractions . But, I liked TOT, Monsters Inc, PBP, TSMM, Aladdin as well. Despite my *OLD* self on the boards where I trashed the overall tone and execution of the park, the actual attractions they built after opening was fine to me and I said as much all the time. Just not enough of it and the park STILL sucks overall . And yes, I would LOVE they put in Cali attractions, but they will simply not do that, which is WHY I dont understand why they are still bothering with this stupid theme?? DCA as a theme is a complete and utter failure. What's odd is they seem to say they are building and expanding on the theme with the additions and yet none of this stuff is about California, except the entrance and even that is just another Main St type entrance anyway. That's what I dont get either and HOPE they change the name and create a broader theme instead of keep saying its still about California and stuff attractions like TLM and RSR into the mix. What does ANY of that have to do with California? With Golden Dreams now gone, another California based attraction is now gone with more toons popping up. So I agree with you, I do, I just think pretending this park is still state-themed focus, it will help EVERYONE if they got rid of that theme and make it something people wont call heresay on, that's all. But like I said, two years ago, I considered DCA DOA by this point. I didnt think they would do much for it from that point on, just add a few C and D tickets every few years and that would be it and I sort of became happy with that as long as they were well themed and entertaining, which admittedly the later attractions were. So, its exciting to have someone FINALLY admit the park in its current state is a failure and they wanted to change not only its status, but its image as well. Doesnt mean it will be perfect, just better! I can live with that at this point .
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> Does DCA’s Mulholland Madness have to go through those iterations? Why go through the expense for ANOTHER poor limited experience? << That's why I'm worried that for any number of reasons the renovation of the park still won't be extensive and complete enough. The Blue Sky illustration of the revamped Madness coaster suggests its unsightly "guts" -- that being the track -- still will be quite visible from the front (south) side. Does this mean the eyesore of MM as seen from the Grand Californian Hotel (north side), with those clunky panels painted to look like the sky, will remain? I sure hope not. And I can understand the opinion that the planned remodeling of the Orange Stinger and Mailboomer, among other schlock in DCA, will result in something as bad as the original versions. But worse? That implies DCA 1.0, and particularly the Paradise Pier portion of the park, wasn't as much of a tacky joke to begin with. However, when I recall my first glimpses back in 2001 of all the ugly concrete queues and cheap-looking environments in general built around the Orange Stinger and the Mailboomer, not to mention King Triton and California Screamin', etc, etc, there is no way that I can believe future modifications will result in rides or attractions, or buildings, that are *worse* than the original. Maybe as bad as. But worse? No way. And as mentioned by WorldDisney, if the revamping of DCA were up to me, I'd take a huge axe -- both literally (ripping down most of Paradise Pier) and figuratively (axing the "California" theme), to most of it. But, unfortuantely, large portions of DCA do represent a gift (from Eisner & Co) that will keep on giving. So for logistical and economic reasons, it's unrealistic to assume that even a very ambitious and aggressive new regime at the DisCo will have the stomach to tear down as much of DCA as I'd like them to do. More importantly, I'm still not sure if the current group of planners is as underwhelmed by Eisner's love of, for example, "seaside fun parks" as they should be. If they were, they'd have no desire to install a huge new "Paradise Pier" sign -- as depicted in Blue Sky drawings -- on the side of the tracks of California Screamin'. Another thing: there are so many flaws and "d'ohs!" throughout DCA, that to properly correct them all will require a level of effort that may swamp the time and abilities of the Imagineering department. That's even truer if belt tightening in the DisCo over the past few years has resulted in fewer well-trained, skilled employees and executives. And I won't even mention budgetary issues, since none of us knows fully -- even 8 years following DCA's premiere -- how the park south of Disneyland has been performing in terms of profit and loss.
Originally Posted By dshyates Take your pick from the link below. Just add a Mickey statue. Voila, a Disney quality attraction. <a href="http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=wave+swinger&gbv=2" target="_blank">http://images.google.com/image...er&gbv=2</a> Just let me know when the Wave Swinger is repainted and I'll book my flight to this Disney Destination Resort..........NOT!!!!!!!
