Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Did Disneyland REALLY give people anything that revolutionary and trendsetting<< Absolutely. Compared to most other amusement parks that preceded it, many of them dumpy or rough around the edges, Disneyland was something entirely revolutionary: a place filled with attractions for the whole family. Any number of quotes by Walt and others about not playing down to audiences and children can be found quickly. Likewise, no guest said "Hey, we want a ride with musical pirates!" in a survey. Instead, creative people from a variety of backgrounds and disciplines, lead by storytellers who understood the craft of filmmaking, came up with imaginative things people didn't even know they wanted, things that had never been done before. What we have in this new queue is a lot like most modern movie trailers -- they reveal too much, leave little to anticipate, and are too much hard sell. Disney and other entertainment companies are so convinced that unless there is constantly something happening at every second, they'll lose their guests' attention. And maybe they're right. Maybe it's as Spirit says -- in the Facebook era, it's more important to tweet about having fun than to spend time unplugging and actually paying attention to what's around them for a while. Maybe that is a thing of the past.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan my generation - raised on MMC and Disneyland is moving thru our period of relevance to them. Yes we contributed heavily to things like DVC - but we did not create the Hannah Montana type monster...nor do we particularly support it, yet it is wildly successful. I dare say the storytelling and rides that require patience we all so adore would likely not be built today.<< Yep. And this means that we either adapt and enjoy what's there now, or move on to some other entertainment form, visit other places and spend vacation money there instead. It's a great big ol' world.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Spot on, 2oony. Excellent observations. Whenever someone like RT makes statements questioning the revolutionary amusement park rebirth with the opening of Disneyland, I immediately wonder how old they are. Anyone my age (mid-fifties) and older who regularly visited DL since opening knows the answer intimately. DL was unique. It was the game changer. Amusement parks prior to DL were an entirely different industry. DL was like a living movie that you participated in, were a part of. Other amusement parks back then weren't like that at all. They were glorified carnivals, like POP. Disneyland was almost alien in its differences. It was the Holy Grail of the American Family Vacation. That's why old fogeys like myself hate to see the decline in what we grew up with, regarding coherent theming and quality detailed immersion. HM's new interactive queue looks cheap and disjointed. Bad show.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yep. And this means that we either adapt and enjoy what's there now, or move on to some other entertainment form, visit other places and spend vacation money there instead. It's a great big ol' world ------------- couldn;t agree more - it's really very true. I find myself less patient to go to Wrigley Field and jam myself into a drunken bleacher fest more than say once a year for $600 for one family day. at 25-35 it was the cat's meow - couldn;t get enough, today it's fun once a year, any more than that and I'll find somewhere else to put my money. WDW ( like the world around it) is evolving. Many of us won't like it, but it will not survive otherwise. are your favorite cartoons still on the air ? Mine aren't ( except for Boomerang) - because kids now find them boring..so advertisers etc put their money elsewhere and poof, nomore Yogi Bear. So myself I have spent tie trying to like some new ones- many just don't appeal to me, yet now and then I find something like Phineas and Ferb that makes it all worth while. I remember bemaoning the same thing when the SImpsons debuted- I liked it from the start but many older than me hated it. I am glad that so much of Disney is still Disney to me, but yes I am aware of the subtle changes that occur every year.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>Can SOMEONE tell ME why WE are YELLING every OTHER word?<< BeCAUSE EmPHAIS is NEEDED! How's THAT!? :lol:
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I am glad that so much of Disney is still Disney to me, but yes I am aware of the subtle changes that occur every year.>> Bleh. Disney stopped being "Disney" many eons ago. And the changes stopped being subtle after the wand and BAH popped up. If I want to experience what Disney used to be, I'll go to Uni/Potter or DisneySea. But WDW no longer has it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I know many families that would disgree vehemently -- but you're entitled to your opinion also. I am sorry it no longer does it for you and hope I never reach that point. But if I do, you won't find me here
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Whenever someone like RT makes statements questioning the revolutionary amusement park rebirth with the opening of Disneyland, I immediately wonder how old they are.>> Older than you... fifty-eight, fifty-nine in June. I did not say that Disneyland was not radically different from what existed at the time. I said Disneyland responded to an existing need. Do you think Walt was the only freaking father on earth who wished that amusement parks could be cleaner and more enjoyable for the whole family? What Disney did was RESPOND to a previously unmet need. Yes, what he did was groundbreaking in that someone FINALLY paid attention. But rides like Pirates were years away. Disneyland opened with glorified spinners, fun-house dark rides and commercial exhibits. The greatest thing about the original Disneyland is that someone FINALLY gave people what they had been asking for... not that someone gave them something no one had thought of.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "And this means that we either adapt and enjoy what's there now, or move on to some other entertainment form, visit other places and spend vacation money there instead. It's a great big ol' world." I'm going to copy and paste this and save it somewhere on my computer and repost it every time we have one of these debates. It's fun to visit the resorts, come here to chat and discuss the latest stuff, but at some point you really have to take a step back and remember what's really at stake here. Basically nothing.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<But rides like Pirates were years away. Disneyland opened with glorified spinners, fun-house dark rides and commercial exhibits.>> What about Jungle Cruise? Or the Mark Twain? Other amusement parks had rides like these? And what about attractions that came a few years after opening, but long before Pirates, like Matterhorn Bobsleds, the Monorail, and Submarine Voyage? They opened just four years later. Disney wasn't simply responding to a previously unmet need. Disney created the theme park. It wasn't a hodge podge mix of unrelated rides, restaurants, shops, and shows. There was a grand scheme. The park flowed from the entrance, up Main Street, arriving at the Hub. No other park previously had been designed that way. Personally, I cannot believe that someone as ancient as you are, RT, cannot grasp this very basic difference between Disneyland and the amusement parks that came before it. Disneyland was groundbreaking. And anyone who has studied design and architecture knows this full well. Nothing else came close to Disneyland before it opened. Nothing.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I will certainly grant you that. The whole concept of a unified themed "land" did not exist before Disneyland. No one ever talked about a theme park before Disneyland. But has Disney really changed so much now? Both Epcot and Animal Kingdom were major game-changers... something totally unique from anything before or since. How often can we expect something totally unique like that? So now we complain endlessly about stuff like queue enhancements. I really don't understand it.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I don't expect stuff to be as revolutionary as Epcot with every addition. But I'd also like to see the additions be classy and flow with the experience.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>If I want to experience what Disney used to be, I'll go to Uni/Potter or DisneySea. But WDW no longer has it.<<< Skinner, I usually agree totally with you, but here, I can't say that I do, just because I have a very clear picture in my mind of World Showcase at this time of night, and that has a LOT of what we both look for (I think) in a theme park. But I do agree that the majority of WDW is lacking what you ask for.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I don't expect stuff to be as revolutionary as Epcot with every addition. But I'd also like to see the additions be classy and flow with the experience.<<< WORD. When we agree, we agree, Hokie. No, let's talk about IJA and DHS and SWSA and start screaming at each other again!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "but it does bother me when I'm standing in a Spanish fortress waiting maybe 10 minutes to ride PoC and everyone in line is playing with their toys." <<Oh, this one is always great. Spirit, they aren't playing with their toys. They are standing there staring at their toy with a confused look on their face. Then they look up slightly paniced and say, "No bars.....I've got no bars!">> That is funny. I just don't get how the crowd that often complains the loudest about how WDW is some MAGICal escape from the real world, wastes so much of their time not taking in all the great stuff around them. Why enjoy WDW when you can Tweet or play games? And, of course, there's no doubt that much of it is an addiction and should be treated as such, not glorified.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I so much agree with you in spirit- Spirit -- however I truly believe it is a losing battle, and is it worth risking the majority of your business to take a stand on principle. Face it people like us here do not make up the majority of their business- whether it be at the parks / at the theatre or over the airwaves.>> That's true. They are not even shy about their desire for folks like us to basically 'shut your MAGICal traps, give us your $$$ or don't because we think we'll get it from someone else without your decades of conditioning and ... oh yeah, standards.' <<They can gauge their audience thru surveys at WDW, they can also get very good readings from movie feedback- and their next generation -- turn on Radio Disney for a few ear splitting hours... THAT is the target audience, as much as we all hate that. my generation - raised on MMC and Disneyland is moving thru our period of relevance to them. Yes we contributed heavily to things like DVC - but we did not create the Hannah Montana type monster...nor do we particularly support it, yet it is wildly successful. I dare say the storytelling and rides that require patience we all so adore would likely not be built today.>> BINGO!!! All of this talk over the Mansion queue when the real point is Disney wouldn't build it today. Look at HKDL ... Mystic Manor's ride time is a few minutes shorter than other Mansions. <<I am glad others feel this way too...but I fear we will have to enjoythe relics / nuggets we have--pray for a societal shift and unfortunately live in the I have to be doing 4 things at once- I want it now world slowly enhyulfing every part of our lives.>> Very true. I've stated it over and over again ... WDW being Walmarted is simply a reflection of American society being Walmarted. And I am not optimistic in brighter days for either company or country, sadly.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Maybe I'm just against technology (I'm not), but it does bother me when I'm standing in a Spanish fortress waiting maybe 10 minutes to ride PoC and everyone in line is playing with their toys. Why can't people take in their setting? Nothing takes you out of the story or escape as seeing someone tweet 'OMG!!! Just did SplashMtn and DAD Got soaked!'<< First of all, great post. I don't like the whole interactive queue thing at all, but I've had a difficult time articulating exactly why. Your summation got it pretty well. But regarding this specific quote, I 100% totally agree. But I'll go one further - why on Earth can't folks TALK to the people they are actually with? Seriously? You'd rather text someone who isn't there, than SPEAK to the person next to you!! And we wonder why civility is declining in our society? Geez, I'm not even asking for folks to talk to strangers, which can be fun too.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I am glad that so much of Disney is still Disney to me, but yes I am aware of the subtle changes that occur every year.>> <<Bleh. Disney stopped being "Disney" many eons ago. And the changes stopped being subtle after the wand and BAH popped up. If I want to experience what Disney used to be, I'll go to Uni/Potter or DisneySea. But WDW no longer has it.>> Yes. I was basically going to say the same. You want to experience what WDW used to offer? TDR is the place to go (when it reopens). UNI has stepped up its game, but Potter's greatness just shows how lacking other parts of the park are ... like say the one that showcases all those Disney characters like Hulk and Spidey ;-) WDW is still a nice place. Very nice in some places. But it sure used to be a whole lot more.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't expect stuff to be as revolutionary as Epcot with every addition. But I'd also like to see the additions be classy and flow with the experience.>> That's the whole problem with WDW in the 21st century. They don't really care about getting the basics right. Sure, they'd rather they please their guests and cast ... but that isn't near the top of their concerns. Show quality standards? Value? Cleanliness? Cast? etc ... they don't matter as much as selling timeshares and dining plans and cheap character experiences. So, forget about pushing the bar in immersive family entertainment. Leave that to the OLC ... or UNI in O-Town. I have no real issue with this 'enhancement' to the queue since I haven't seen it in person. But I have a HUGE issue with the thinking behind it. It basically says 'we can't entertain you enough with our product, so here's something you and your brats can touch and play with until it falls apart, which likely will be sooner rather than later'.
