Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<So, nana, nana, goo-goo! There is a difference between being critical of real problems gone unfixed and knit-picking everything that is tried that is new.>> And this is why threads always end up getting out of hand.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA One man's broken Yeti in 'Expedition Everest' is another man's missing donkey from 'Pirates of the Caribbean.' It's all subjective. To take some of the justifications from posters on this board, would a person riding 'Expedition Everest' for the first time, notice that the Yeti was not moving? Or that the Yeti is even broken and just frozen with a strobe light on him? I'm not sure the average guest would notice. Again, being 'nit-picky' is a very subjective thing, and differs for each person visiting the parks. It's based on life experience; number of times you've visited a park; what your own personal aesthetic is in relation to art and decoration and architecture and graphics -- all that stuff. It's like watching 'American Idol.' My wife and I are both singers, and so we bring a certain level of knowledge of singing and performing to the way we watch the show. And for anyone else, you can't help but know what you know. As it pertains to Disney. I don't care for the look of the new props in the Haunted Mansion queue because in my mind, they don't fit in with the rest of the Mansion. Some might think that it's perfect and enhances the entire attraction to a tee. And that's fine too. Back to the Yeti -- the trains are traveling very quickly through that last tunnel where the Yeti makes his appearance. How do we justify the Yeti being there, against the argument that 'you're going too fast' on Grizzly River Rapids to be able to see any AA wildlife on the shore. <--(runs for cover)
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>And this is why threads always end up getting out of hand.<<< Oh, come on...I've been on this board for years, and the fact of the matter is that no matter what stance one takes, someone is going to disagree with it. If one tries to interject humor or just plain old poking, then for some reason the thread is going to take a nasty turn. That tells me that we are all taking ourselves way to seriously. I won't just shake my head yes if I disagree and I will try and explain why I feel like I do about some of the things. I am realistic enough to know that I am not going to change anybodies minds about things...I just sometimes think that "all of us" carry this inconsequential stuff to extremes. I am not prepared to say that some of the recent changes to WDW are negative in any way. Are they different then they were before, a little, yes, but that does not automatically make them bad. I see people treating HM as if it were really a HM and now we have gone and upset the spirits..and we will pay for that. I don't happen to think what was done was bad, in fact, I think it was good for the overall draw of WDW. In today's world WDW could very well die in its own stagnation. Pay attention to the protests. "Disney isn't spending money to keep the park up" or "Disney is spending money but I don't like what they are doing". It's just never ending. Not fixing a broken AA...sorry that is wrong. Upgrading and making entertaining a "Q" is not wrong, it's called plusing in the lingo of Walt himself. So if this thread gets out of hand you can all blame it on me cause my opinion is different then some of the others. So be it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan "Disney is spending money but I don't like what they are doing" But that's a valid complaint, isn't it? They spent millions and millions on "Mars Needs Moms" and audiences seem to hate it (or ignore it entirely). I fail to see why people shouldn't express an opinion and discuss various additions and changes. Disney charges top dollar and prides itself on a long history of Imagineering precedents. If guests like us think they've fallen short in some area, what's the problem with discussing it here? I don't get it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan On the company-run Disney blogs, it's a lot of happy-isn't-it-all-magical talk. That's fine, but it's pretty dull. I appreciate having LP to hash these sorts of details the average guest doesn't pay much mind to.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >>No offense, of course...<< Not offended at all. My Disney trips are the only time I can shut my mind. As I said in my previous post, it's never going to be like it was when I first started going in 1975, but times have changed, they've cheapened the place up, give away rooms and food..and then people wonder why it's not what it used to be.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I fail to see why people shouldn't express an opinion and discuss various additions and changes. Disney charges top dollar and prides itself on a long history of Imagineering precedents. If guests like us think they've fallen short in some area, what's the problem with discussing it here? I don't get it.<<< We are discussing the comment made about my posts that "these were the kind of posts that cause the threads to get out of hand. All I remember doing is expressing that I disagree and also how I feel about the constant interjection that everything has gone to hell in a hand basket and we all know what will work far better than anyone else. And, of course, if we do like something new...it's just plain wrong. Making changes that some of us "purist" feel are inappropriate are deemed wrong. No thought about the change in the world and the change in society are allowed to enter into the scenario. It just always seems like if it isn't exactly like it was "back in the day" it must be crap. I say that it's not true. Not everything can be a winner, but, I'm glad they are trying and not just saying, who cares. It angers me so much when I think of the millions that were spent on Mission Space only to have the bad luck of a couple of health problems affect it dramatically. All I can think of is...everyone has been constantly complaining that Disney doesn't spend any money to upgrade. They just want to rake in profits with little or no spending increase and then when they do make a spectacular investment both original and fitting with today's societal demands all you hear is "Horizons is gone" replace by the spinning killer. If I were part of imagineering I'm sure I would just pull in my wings and not try to fly for quite a while. Instead of support and praise they get condemnation for changing something that frankly was no longer working for all but a handful of traditionalists. That's why we are having this discussion go out of control because opposing opinions are not tolerated by the rank and file. Opposing opinions are listed as the reason a thread goes out of control. I guess I've said enough on the topic, but it sometimes just gets to be too much.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 It's a work of art (gasp!) that has been besmirched with a playground designed to keep the attention of impatient and uninterested park guests who need bubbles and squirting water to keep their eyes averted from smart phones.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<And, of course, if we do like something new...it's just plain wrong.>> I haven't seen anyone say that. Save for the OP, but he/she doesn't seem to be the most level headed person in the world. << It just always seems like if it isn't exactly like it was "back in the day" it must be crap.>> I fail to see that from the majority of the posters who don't like the queue in this thread. The faults I've seen brought up deal with thematic story flow. <<It angers me so much when I think of the millions that were spent on Mission Space only to have the bad luck of a couple of health problems affect it dramatically. All I can think of is...everyone has been constantly complaining that Disney doesn't spend any money to upgrade. They just want to rake in profits with little or no spending increase and then when they do make a spectacular investment both original and fitting with today's societal demands all you hear is "Horizons is gone" replace by the spinning killer. If I were part of imagineering I'm sure I would just pull in my wings and not try to fly for quite a while. Instead of support and praise they get condemnation for changing something that frankly was no longer working for all but a handful of traditionalists.>> I've never heard any hate for M:S come because of the deaths. Any sane person knows that was because of preexisting conditions and had nothing to do about the ride. Also, you might like to know, aside from the green side being implemented, nothing has been changed on Orange.(I love me some M:S, too) <<That's why we are having this discussion go out of control because opposing opinions are not tolerated by the rank and file. Opposing opinions are listed as the reason a thread goes out of control.>> I can understand that... BUT, after years on fansites I have noticed one thing. Yes, there are a ton of negative posts, but the positive people always seem to flip out on the critical people who actually are here to discuss and bring their opinions. The people who actually can see both sides of the coin. But the minute they bring up a negative, they get hounded. Now, I'm not saying that it never works the other way, because we've all seen it happen. But from my experience, it's usually the other way around. And both sides need to quit the petty fighting, snarky remarks, and just general BSing. These are discussion boards. Not "everything sould be positive" or "everything should be negative" boards.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I guess I've never been a big fan of the opening act of HM. I think the room stretching is kind of a hokey effect and does nothing to build suspense for me. I do think the line about how will you get out... there are no windows and no doors... is good a line and makes you wonder what trick Disney may have in store for getting you out. But then the tacky hanging scene immediately destroys that suspense. I've always thought that scene was in poor taste. When teen suicide is a major problem in this country, depicting suicide as a "way out" is poor form. JMHO.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^I love the stretch room, but I agree with that last part. Never really liked the hanging.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The threads would be a lot shorter if, after each OP, the second poster just said, "yep...you are right.">> Yep, you are right. But I personally can't find as much energy as I once did to banter about things like this because I am DISGUSTED by what is happening in our country (and on our planet in general) these days. The queue is probably bad based upon why it is and where it is ... but DISGUSTING? Nah, that's when you discover that most things in the USA are screwed up in ways that will never likely get better in your lifetime if ever and that most people either don't realize it, don't care or are living in some alternate reality (usually one involving copious amounts of prescribed meds) and think things are just fine.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I see people treating HM as if it were really a HM and now we have gone and upset the spirits..and we will pay for that.>> There are some people who have definitely upset this Spirit and they have nothing to do with the Mansion ... and trust me, they will get theirs in the end (and it's gonna hurt!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I've never heard any hate for M:S come because of the deaths. Any sane person knows that was because of preexisting conditions and had nothing to do about the ride.>> Sane people and Disney fan forums go together like um ... ah ... NBA players and showtunes. <<Also, you might like to know, aside from the green side being implemented, nothing has been changed on Orange.(I love me some M:S, too)>> Well, if you mean the fact that HALF of an attraction that cost a HUGE amount of money (I've heard tales pegging it in the $200 million range) being turned into a glorified simulator then yes, nothing has been changed. Sorry to sound snarky, just my mood tonight (knew I should have had that frozen yougurt ... or some alcohol ... or both!), but MS has been changed much more significantly than Mansion just by turning a few switches and hitting a few keys on a programming board. <<That's why we are having this discussion go out of control because opposing opinions are not tolerated by the rank and file. Opposing opinions are listed as the reason a thread goes out of control.>> <<I can understand that... BUT, after years on fansites I have noticed one thing. Yes, there are a ton of negative posts, but the positive people always seem to flip out on the critical people who actually are here to discuss and bring their opinions. The people who actually can see both sides of the coin. But the minute they bring up a negative, they get hounded.>> You don't say ;-) <<Now, I'm not saying that it never works the other way, because we've all seen it happen. But from my experience, it's usually the other way around. And both sides need to quit the petty fighting, snarky remarks, and just general BSing. These are discussion boards. Not "everything sould be positive" or "everything should be negative" boards.>> I don't think people should be anything other than honest with themselves and the community here. If that means they want to bash incessantly or glow and wet themselves over anything Disney does or something in between ... so be it. And as long as they aren't attacking others, which I almost never see here (as opposed to other sites).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<But then the tacky hanging scene immediately destroys that suspense. I've always thought that scene was in poor taste. When teen suicide is a major problem in this country, depicting suicide as a "way out" is poor form. JMHO.>> Seriously, Trippy? Really?!?! Now,that is really stretching it (full pun intended).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Even before the fluke deaths on MS, there was a LOT of talk at fan sites about how MS was making everyone sick. They had the whole thing blown way out of proportion. After the deaths there were even post on this site about how Disney had gotten rid of a classic (Horizons) and replaced it with a 'death trap'. Personally, I LOVE MS... the ORANGE side. I rode the green side once just to see what it was like. It was still a decent experience... just nothing as totally unique as the orange side is.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Seriously, Trippy? Really?!?!>> Seriously. Really. Having known people who have committed or attempted suicide, it is nothing to joke about. They were just casual acquaintances rather than close friends or family, but it still hurt to see someone who was hurting so badly they chose to take their own life.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Even before the fluke deaths on MS, there was a LOT of talk at fan sites about how MS was making everyone sick. They had the whole thing blown way out of proportion. After the deaths there were even post on this site about how Disney had gotten rid of a classic (Horizons) and replaced it with a 'death trap'. Personally, I LOVE MS... the ORANGE side. I rode the green side once just to see what it was like. It was still a decent experience... just nothing as totally unique as the orange side is.>> MS is far from a 'death trap' ... but it does make people sicker than anything at WDW by a large margin. That is why they have turned half the ride into a glorified Star Tours. And if you talk to anyone at P&R in management, they will candidly tell you that the attraction hasn't delivered what the company expected.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Seriously. Really. Having known people who have committed or attempted suicide, it is nothing to joke about. They were just casual acquaintances rather than close friends or family, but it still hurt to see someone who was hurting so badly they chose to take their own life. >> Suicide is an incredible tragedy, especially in this country where so many people take their own lives that we don't even publish figures (and that doesn't count the so-called 'accidental overdoses' that many people with some power and money are able to use to cover for the stigma that a relative took their own life, which again likely speaks volumes of where we are as a society), but really I've just never heard one person articulate what you posted. It just makes no sense. This is Disney and an attraction about ghosts and the supernatural ... I suppose the bride in the attic encourages women to marry many men and murder them with an ax. And I guess while we're at it, Dumbo teaches kids that elephants fly. And Splash Mountain teaches us all that it's perfectly fine to be racially insensitive and have a zip-a-dee-do-dah 'tude about it, provided The Weatherman doesn't have to hear from the NAACP after releasing Song of the South on DVD too!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I suppose the bride in the attic encourages women to marry many men and murder them with an ax.>> Now how could an LP regular POSSIBLY complain about ax murderers?? << Lizzie Borden took an axe And gave her mother forty whacks. When she saw what she had done She gave her father forty-one.>> Now THAT'S entertainment! Not suicide. ;-)
