Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Now if they had been doing surveys in DL in the early 60's, I wonder how many people would have said they wanted a boat ride past singing robotic pirates? And just look how that turned out. Disney used to surpass all expectations and even come up with ideas that were simply unfathomable to most people. They were done in such a way that you couldn't think of a better attraction, even if you had no interest in the subject itself. Now, with surveys, we're reducing all additions to things that are very much within the imagination of every guest in attendance. The additions are still nice, but they are hardly inspiring on the same level of Disney of old. Yes, there are occasional exceptions (Everest comes to mind, but with broken effects and some other issues, I found it a little underwhelming), but for the most part, they just seem to aim for the lowest common denominator. Because the surveys say so.<<< YES! Exactly. Ignore the majority of your guests, make things with enough quality and entertainment value that EVERYONE will like. And for the record, just throw in some Fanboi "nods" in there to shut us up.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>It all depends on how one defines cheesy. I know plenty of people who think most things related to Disney and its theme parks is cheesy.<< "Even under that guise... does this level of cheesy match the level of subtle and dark and cheesiness that's found at the gate? Nope. Two different types of cheese. Roquefort and Cheddar." You are over thinking this. In principle I agree with you, and it's clear that much of this isn't designed very well (some of the tombstones appear to not have the proper space around them to be believable for instance) and I always get a little bothered when Disney dumbs down the experience. However, the video clip suggests that people are thoroughly enjoying this, and if people are entertained then I suppose the mission has been accomplished. Sadly, Joe Disney Guest is going to give a hoot or notice all the subtleties that you and I might notice or care about.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Sadly, Joe Disney Guest is going to give a hoot or notice all the subtleties that you and I might notice or care about.>> A lot of the self-referential, wink-wink, nod-nod, I get it, do you (?) stuff is more like an in-joke between Imagineers and hard-core fans (see, I didn't say fanbois) than anything else. It flies right over the head of the great majority of Disney guests. That is all well and good, but to claim Disney is violating some sacred design principle when they don't include that stuff is a little extreme.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA The reasoning of 'it keeps kids entertained' is, in many ways, such a lame goal. And it's such a product of this generation of parents. And not in a good way. Kids are so coddled and cooed to the point where, when you're at Disneyland, one of the most amazing theme parks in the world, you have to have entertainment to wait in a line. Looking back to 1969, how did I, at 7-years old, survive standing in a 45-minute queue for 'Pirates of the Caribbean' on a busy summer day in 1969? How? We just did it.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <<Sadly, Joe Disney Guest is going to give a hoot or notice all the subtleties that you and I might notice or care about.>> Completely disagree with the above. It's the small attention-to-detail items that set "Disney Theme Parks" apart from the rest. Isn't it? Does that same 'Joe Disney Guest' not notice all the detail lavished on the Harry Potterland in Islands of Adventure? The average guest may not get on a Disney website and foam all over the place, but to say 'they don't give a hoot' is selling them WAY short.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I enjoy the detail in Disney queues. I think a couple of the best at WDW are at the Studios... the queue for Star Tours and TSMM are both almost as fun as the ride itself. On the other hand, I'll take being entertained over a boring queue any day. Case in point... the Soarin' queues at DCA and Epcot. Although DCA tried to throw in some detail with photos of historic California aviators and such, overall it is a long and boring queue. The queue at EPCOT would be EXTRAORDINARILY bland and boring except for one thing... being entertained. The guest-interactive "video game" projected on the walls of the queue is actually quite entertaining and helps pass the time during what is undoubtedly the longest wait at WDW. Although the DCA queue attempts some stage-setting with attention to detail, I vastly prefer waiting in the Epcot queue. And frankly, the HM queue until you finally came to the graveyard just before entering the mansion was incredibly boring also.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Right, so position this away from the entrance, maybe? I don't know... Just keep the thematic build up for the actual entrance untouched.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <And frankly, the HM queue until you finally came to the graveyard just before entering the mansion was incredibly boring also.> And I say, if the queue for 'The Haunted Mansion' at Walt Disney World was 'boring' -- then, maybe what I'm arguing is that there's a need for some 'downtime' during a visit to Walt Disney World. A queue is -- or was -- a place to catch your breath, to refresh, to build some anticipation to the next thrill. Now, with FastPass and interactive queues and schedulizing and the like, it's just non-stop stimulation from morning to night. Pretty soon, the visit to Magic Kingdom just becomes a level 9.5 activity all the time -- with no breaks. Maybe it's already there. Perhaps in the future, you'll have the option to pick up your box lunch from Pecos Bill Cafe and take it with you on 'Pirates of the Caribbean' with a Goofy character in the boat with you so you can get your 'character greeting' out of the way.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Downtime at Disneyland is one thing with Southern California's pleasant weather. It is another thing entirely with Florida's heat and humidity. Add to that WDW's greater number of obnoxious tour groups and a gazillion tourists with screaming children whose parent are determined to have a MAGICAL VACATION even if it kills them and you have a different situation entirely.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan LOL, you know I agree with Jim's post fully. But I fear we're spitting in the wind. >>it's just non-stop stimulation from morning to night<< Reminds me of my honeymoon.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Perhaps in the future, you'll have the option to pick up your box lunch from Pecos Bill Cafe and take it with you on 'Pirates of the Caribbean' with a Goofy character in the boat with you so you can get your 'character greeting' out of the way.<<< While they launch fireworks over your boat.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <<Sadly, Joe Disney Guest is going to give a hoot or notice all the subtleties that you and I might notice or care about.>> "Completely disagree with the above. It's the small attention-to-detail items that set "Disney Theme Parks" apart from the rest. Isn't it?" But Jim the details are there. Who else but Disney (okay, maybe Universal) would install something so elaborate simply to entertain people while they are waiting for a ride? My comment wasn't about details, but about storytelling. The insider transitional storytelling elements that EPCOT Explorer was talking about simply doesn't matter to the average visitor notices.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Looking back to 1969, how did I, at 7-years old, survive standing in a 45-minute queue for 'Pirates of the Caribbean' on a busy summer day in 1969? >><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NwP3wes4M8<<" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...<<</a>
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA So now it's the weather prompting these changes in interactive queues?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "A queue is -- or was -- a place to catch your breath, to refresh, to build some anticipation to the next thrill." In my Perfect Theme Park there would be no queues. You'd simply walk up and get on the ride.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Looking back to 1969, how did I, at 7-years old, survive standing in a 45-minute queue for 'Pirates of the Caribbean' on a busy summer day in 1969?" I visited Disneyland as a young kid back in the late 60s and early 70s and although we tolerated the waits (what other choice did we have?) we certainly would have preferred something like the new HM queue or Fastpass back then.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So now it's the weather prompting these changes in interactive queues?>> I didn't say that. I just said that for me waiting in line in a WDW queue is NOT a pleasant experience. If they can do something to take my mind off it so much the better. Waiting in line at Disneyland, at least for me, is a much more pleasant experience.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Jim, I'm an old fashioned kind of guy too but you can't just ignore the obvious. It's ain't that way anymore. Unless you are willing to give up your microwave, your mobile phone and your HDTV with DVR that allows you to skip all the commercials then you better embrace the idea that kids today don't have the same expectations as we did as kids. Most of the kids today are getting to Disney in airplanes equipped with televisions (or cars with CD players) to entertain them on the way there. They are checking into rooms that have 60+ channels of television which they are watching in a kind of-sort of way while playing their hand held video games. And, you can say it is about kids keeping entertained but I saw more adults looking at their smart phones than anything else at the park last week. I nearly ran into a few of them who weren't watching where they were going and I'm of the mindset that incoherent smart phone users are going to be as big as a problem as stroller pushers in the coming years. I don't like waiting in line anywhere so if there is something that can keep my mind off the B.O., inappropriate conversations, crying kids, etc then I'm all for it.
Originally Posted By dshyates "I don't like waiting in line anywhere so if there is something that can keep my mind off the B.O., inappropriate conversations, crying kids, etc then I'm all for it." Great so now you can be distracted from BO by a mildewy water playground. The inappropriate conversations will be lost to the disjointed cacophony of racket supplied by slap activated noise makers. And we can all be tickled pink as we witness those crying children being whipped into a mountain dew feuled frenzy by aforementioned slap activated noise makers. I am just surprised they didn't a skele-bones drum set for the kiddies.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I don't like waiting in line anywhere so if there is something that can keep my mind off the B.O., inappropriate conversations, crying kids, etc then I'm all for it.<<< Yeah, but don't do that just to do that. What about the thematics of it? What about the story being told? This contradicts it all.
