Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<For Disney to censor what goes on inside of HoB is pretty ridculous.>> "Censor" is a pretty loaded term. And, depending upon which definition you use, it's an inaccurate one here. But let's say it's used technically correctly in this post. The word still implies an unfair use of power to prohibit expression. What's unfair or unusual about a landlord implementing and enforcing rules about what its tenants must and cannot do? It's not about freedom or rights, it's about business. It's about projecting and protecting image in order to maximize revenue. Could the ear piercing store at your local mall plaster tacky hand-lettered "sale" signs on its windows? No. Could the bookstore sell porn? Could A&F play their music so loudly that you can hear it in the Center Court? No. Those are conditions those tenants signed on to. To say that Disney has no right to exercise control over its image by imposing rules on its tenants is naive and incorrect. Of course it can. And of course it should. If Disney didn't impose/maintain standards in DTD, DTD would be just another strip mall. [Note: As I said earlier, if Disney said only the day before the show that it wouldn't allow the group to perform at HoB, THAT's unfair of them.]
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Disney can't have it both ways. Create an atmosphere - Downtown Disney that is partly restaurants, shopping, bars and music and screams party! Then say "now behave yourself.">> Maybe Disney and HoB aren't a good match. Maybe it's time for one or the other or both to re-evaluate the relationship in light of their individual goals.
Originally Posted By mele I don't really care either way what HOB does but it seems kind of silly for Disney to advertise an area as an entertainment area for adults and to suddenly start canceling shows that seemed fine to book and then suddenly were deemed "inappropriate". As an adult, I like to judge what is inappropriate for myself.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^Again, I think that this comes down to Disney wanting to have its cake and eat it too. They market DLR as a "family" destination (after all, its what their brand is all about), but they also want to have a DtD that caters to "adults". Perhaps the concept works better in WDW where DtD is distant from any of the theme parks. DLR, as we all know, is all squeezed together. In other words, if you vacation at WDW you never need set foot anywhere near DtD, whereas in DLR the trams load and unload right next to DtD.
Originally Posted By dshyates "I think Disney should have honored the commitment considering how close it was to the event, and then made it clear to HOB what their standards were for booking acts in the future." I agreee. and then discuss AGAIN how far should Disney allow this to go. Do you really want to see G. G. Allen nail his scrotum to a log in Downtown Disney. Let's take the kids, it will be delightful. Seriously. Disney owns the property. Disneyland is suitable entertainment for 5 year olds. Do we really need to shield the eyes of my kids to provide a venue for an act like these to play where both the concert attendees and the people trying to get into a child oriented theme park will both fell comfortable.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Bravo to both Inspector57 and dshyates! They've summed it all up perfectly. There are plenty of other venues where these folks can express themselves. Disney should continue going for the family demographic with their flagship property.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Thanks guys. >>><< PEOPLE, THIS IS THE HOUSE OF BLUES NOT PLAYHOUSE DISNEY. >> So why aren't they booking Blues or R&B acts? Where does a metal band fit in the "Blues" genre?<<< Well Heavy Metal is very heavily rooted in Blues as a part of the musical evolution process. Bands like Led Zepplin, pivitol to the rock and metal genre find their etimology in blues. But ultimately, HOB is a live music venue with a cover charge. This used to be my favorite place in DTD at DL (but with bonehead moves like this, probably not much longer).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo JenniBarra - sounds like your household is like the Baloos. I love Queensryche and really wanted to go to that gig!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Having read the additional comments. While I appreciate some people go to Disney to schmooze rubber heads, scarf junk food and ride like a commando, some of us go to have an emmersive, safe, family friendly environment, that offers choices. The reason I think DLR is better than WDW or DLP is that it offers so much choice within walking distance. I like that I can take my family, enjoy the parks, a character meal and some family shopping, but at night I can get a babysitter and grab a romantic meal at Napa Rose or go and mosh at HOB (something we normally wouldn't do as parents, but as a one off on vacation awesome)! I view HOB as a part of this mix. You pay a cover charge, and some shows are age restricted, so you don't have to go if you don't. And real hard core trouble makers avoid it for fear of "the man". Disney is about giving people a wealth of diverse entertainment options. Sadly the homoginization and toonfestation of Disney is greatly eroding my passion for the mouse. But sadly, I cannot seem to find a suitable alternative.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Well Heavy Metal is very heavily rooted in Blues as a part of the musical evolution process. >> I guess that explains why heavy metal is so popular in the African American community where the Blues genre was developed.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Evolution is an interesting thing. But there have been some awesome combinations of Rock by African Americans - Jimmy Hendrix, Prince, Rage Against the Machine, Lenny Kravitz, Living Color etc. What a silly arguement SG.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am not a huge fan of RAP, Hip Hop, a lot of the BET scene etc., but I appreciate their merits and would not look to ban it at HOB. I personally think teeny bopper pop and Hip Hop is crap, and not what I want my kids into. However, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I am pro choice here. Homoginization = mediocrity, something I have started to expect from Disney since about 2003.
Originally Posted By jonvn Hip hop concerts are no longer allowed in certain venues in this area due to the nature of the crowds who attend. People don't want trouble, and they don't want to be around those who cause it.
Originally Posted By TMICHAEL >>>So why aren't they booking Blues or R&B acts? Where does a metal band fit in the "Blues" genre?<<< OMG! are you dense?
Originally Posted By TMICHAEL >>>guess that explains why heavy metal is so popular in the African American community where the Blues genre was developed.<<< Hmmm, should have read just a bit further and you answered my question: Yes, you are.
Originally Posted By u k fan I think that Disney acted poorly in cancelling this show so near to the performance date, but I'm coming down with those who are glad there are restrictions in place. I don't care what happens during the show, how many times the act curses on stage or if they all nail their scrotums to whatever they like if it's during the show and only those who choose to be there (and have bought tickets) are there. However, if there is any kind of violent or unlawful behaviour linked to the act or genre in question then it has no place in DtD. If Britney's fans had toppled a bus, stabbed 3 Christina fans in the parking lot and then urinated in a flowerbed at a recent performance I'd be more than happy for a Britney concert to be cancelled. I have no real knowledge of the act in question, but if there is the risk of anything untoward happening the concert should not take place, IMHO. In fairness the only metal fans I know are all great people, but I do live a very sheltered life!!!
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Thank you, u k fan! Likewise, I don't harbor generalized ill-will toward fans of any particular genre of music. I strive to be non-judgemental, and I think I'm generally pretty successful at it. I don't assume that an individual is [anything negative] simply upon learning that he or she is a fan of rap, country, disco, metal, show tunes, or whatever. But being non-judgemental of individuals and conceding to sociological reality are two different things. Certain acts are likely to attract unruly, ugly, extremely "non-Disney-acting" (sometimes violent) crowds. That's not speculation or a prejudice. It's a fact that's documented periodically. I see it in national reports as well as our local coverage. (Two popular bars/music venues in my town are in the process of changing their formats because their history of attracting violence is about to get them shut down.) I also get some insight into this as someone who works a TicketMaster outlet. It IS possible to make factual, not prejudicial, observations about the groups of people who buy tickets for certain acts. If the fans of Insane Clown Posse are unable to express themselves without using the f-bombin a simple transaction in a department store when they're just *buying* the tickets, how would you expect the lot of them to behave when they're pumped up for the show to begin. Ugh. It's bad enough having to deal with them two at a time in real life. I don't want to find myself in the midst of a veritable convention of them while I'm enjoying a Disney vacation.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But the point is folks, any fan groups will engender different behaviours. I am sure there are people that moan about those wierdo Disneyfans amassing on July 17th each year. ;-) And I have seen more unruly behaviour as Fantasmic or Remember finishes than I have ever encountered at a concert. Most of you have openly admitted you have not been to these types of gigs. Well then how do you know what the behaviour is like? I felt more frightened a few years ago at a Robbie Williams concert (I was nearly crushed by a mass of young women - not a bad way to go, but seriously, I was finding it hard to breathe) than at a metal gig - and he's played HOB at Disney. The reality is folks, you either have a concert venue or you do not. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. I will reassert, HOB was not an unknown entity. The one on Sunset had been open for years, when they opened in WDW, and that one was nearly 5 years old when HOB opened in Disneyland. That's why tis latest move seems so nuts to me. But I really am surprised at some of the prejudice displayed on this thread. I find it quite shocking to be honest.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<But the point is folks, any fan groups will engender different behaviours.>> <<But I really am surprised at some of the prejudice displayed on this thread.>> Dave, from the beginning of this thread, I've kept in mind that Disney has been pressured for years to not "accept" openly gay people in the Parks. It makes other guests uncomfortable. Disney doesn't capitulate to that pressure, and I don't think it should. People who are uncomfortable at the sight of gay people need to work that out themselves. Gay people have the right to be out and about. So do goths. (I enjoyed watching goth guys try on eyeshadow in Sephora.) So do tattoo'd people. (I'd never get one, but I love admiring them.) So do people wearing weird clothing or lots of piercings. And people wearing NIN t-shirts or Kelly Clarkston (blech!) t-shirts or Eminem t-shirts. It's not about prejudice. It's about behavior. And setting. In Vegas, most recently I've been in line for Gladys Knight, Stevie Wonder, Melissa Etheridge, and Plant and Page. Guess which three out of four crowds consisted of typical yuppie/guppie people making polite chit-chat in line. And guess which line consisted of people reeking of dope, using "m-f" every other sentence, screaming up to the people in front of them, smoking in line, and being totally disrespectful of the fact that the line they were in was snaking through an upscale restaurant row. But that was okay with me. Because it was Vegas. Vegas is Vegas. You go there knowing what it is. And you go to Disneyland Resort with an expectation of what it is. I LIKE the fact that that expectation doesn't come with a caveat: "Not valid in DTD" or "Not valid after 8:30." I'll give you the fact that some metal-heads are very mellow. That there are respectful concert-goers for every show. But I KNOW that the group behavior of a waiting/released crowd differs based on who they went to see. And that some of that behavior is something I don't want to be subjected to on Disney property. Vegas, fine. Disney, no. <<The reality is folks, you either have a concert venue or you do not.>> No. That's a false dilemma. A venue, just by virtue of being open, is not forced to book every available act. They can, and DO, chose who to book. They make choices. If House of Blues' "values" require that it book acts whose audiences don't comply with Disney behavioral standards, it's a fundamental mis-match. I'm sorry that you feel people are being unfairly prejudicial here. I don't get the sense that anyone is saying that all fans of "X" music are bad. Just that the group behavior of the fans of some acts is incompatible with what they expect/hope for/are promised on a Disney vacation.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Maybe the fan behaviour in the UK is radically different to that in the US and it has coloured my perception (it's possible). But I love the edgyness that is HOB and I love that it's walking distance from the Grand and the parks. On vacation, sometimes you say "do I go to a gig, or go to a park?". I love that in DL, you can do both. But I think my DW made an excellent point about Amy Winehouse. She may have pleasant fans, but the woman herself and the company she keeps are a nightmare, and I would not want to share my time at DL with them. Or the fact that Disney new about Lisa Lohan's behaviours, but still had her party at the parks on their dime, and then tried to cover up the coke/alcohol debauchery that took place within the berm. Herein are the double standards which make me lament the course of action taken by Disney regarding Machine Head. Also, has anyone seen unruly crowds at HOB anaheim before? I would have thought the wholesome image of the resort would put off some of the rabblerousers who would opt for an alternative venue on the tour.
