Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Fine, then please ban gay days, Night of Joy, Cheerleading competitions and all the rest while you are at it.
Originally Posted By jonvn Since Gay Days are not officially done by Disney, they can't really ban them, can they? I don't go to Night of Joy. Someone mentioned that they cause trouble. In that case, I would kick them out, too. It is the same for EVERY group. If you can't behave, if you look like some sort of creature with no respect for the people or property around you, then you should not be allowed. Disney should have a dress code again. It had one until the late 80s at least. If you want to go to the place, you have to look and act like you want to be a part of it.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Cheerleading competitions** Oh, how I WISH they would ban that! Lord, the awful two weeks I spent at the All-Star Motel (NOT by choice), it had to be "cheerleading week" or something. Hearing the giggles, squeaks, and ear-splitting screams of 1,000 teens and tweens splashing in the pool...annoying!! On the other hand, if it had been collegiate cheerleading I might have a whole other opinion of the All-Star Motel! Not touching Gay Pride or Night of Religion with a 10 foot pole, sorry.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<fkurucz - you surprise me.>> So where would you draw the line? Would Ku Klux Klan days work for you?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<fkurucz - you surprise me.>> Actually, I'm surprised that you would support the performing of music that glorifies misogyny, hatred and violence on DLR property. I guess that I would have a very, very hard time imagining Disney himself feeling OK about this were he still alive. Its anathema to what his vision was.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Well most heavy metal is actually about love, trying to rise up the ladder, love, and having fun. So I don't see the problem. Because it is outside of the berm, I am ok with HOB offering alternative entertainment. It's not like it's a lap dancing bar or XXX movie house. Once upon a time I may have agreed, but having enjoyed some excellent adult nights out in DL, DLP and WDW, I like the fact there is something more than the traditional Disney theme park experience. My issue is that Disney chose HOB as a partner (and indeed was one of the key investors in the HOB chain), and therefore the HOB chain should standardise the acts across their venues. I am being hard headed on this one as a metal head, especially if anyone ever met me, or knows what I do for a living, they might be surprised. But to me, Metal is not the music of the devil, but another form of artistic expression. I have been to countless gigs over the years (my dad was a pro musician) and I have encountered far more trouble at pop gigs than metal gigs. I have actually encountered more trouble within the berms then I ever had at metal gigs too. So when I hear people spout negativity about an artistic expression they have never partaken in, well it gets my hackles up. Also, in it's day - Dixieland was considered devil music. And we know New Orleans has a history of lurid behaviour (even in the 18th and 19th centuries). Does that mean we should get rid of NOS in favour of another fantasyland? Of course not.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Dixieland was considered devil music." If people into dixieland did not behave properly, then that should go, too. This is not difficult. It's simply about appropriate behavior.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But who are you to decide what behaving properly is and isn't? Like I say, I have never witnessed improper behaviour at a rock gig, but I have at DL in general.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I think some people are assuming that fans of metal bands are inherently dangerous people. I find that kind of silly. HoB has hosted many many metal bands since it opened and there has not been any instance of violence or disruption. In almost seven years. I think some people find the look of the fans to be somewhat off-putting and therefore they feel threatened by them even though that feeling is not justified by their behavior. Disney has the right to prohibit some bands from performing. Absolutely they do. But completely dismissing a group of people because you do not like their taste in music or their taste in clothing is, well, (yes, Jon) intolerant. Their behavior has not merited any criticism thus far.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But who are you to decide what behaving properly is and isn't?" I'm me. And I'll decide what I think behaving properly is or not. And Disney can, too. You see, if you walk around using coarse language, wearing clothing that has obscene imagery on it, and express yourself "artistically" in a manner that is patently offensive to the vast majority of park goers, then it's inappropriate. Period. It's not hard. There are things in this world called manners. Polite and civil behavior. And yes, I'm intolerant of those who do not wish to engage in such things, or those who wish to show that they enjoy not engaging in those things. EVERYONE is intolerant at some level of things they personally find reprehensible. Let's take the example of child molesters. I would think that everyone here is utterly and beyond any measure completely and totally intolerant of such behavior. And yet, there is the NAMBLA organization who thinks we should be tolerant of such things. Well, I'm not going to be tolerant of that sort of thing, and I'm not going to be tolerant of cursing, and other foul behavior, either. You may think "my god, metal music is not child molesting," and I am NOT saying it is by any stretch. It is simply something that we here all (I would HOPE!) do not tolerate, or even wish to tolerate, yet there are others who say we should. It's precisely the same idea, taken to an extreme. But it's also a very real thing that exists. You can go look up what NAMBLA is if you don't believe me. You know what? The people at NAMBLA draw their lines, too. Just not where we do. My drawing a line is not where you draw your line, but don't for a moment think that you do not also draw one somewhere. So if you can follow what I'm saying here, then you can follow why I am saying such acts do not belong at Disneyland, and do not belong around families. It is simply inappropriate.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Well, I'm not going to be tolerant of that sort of thing, and I'm not going to be tolerant of cursing, and other foul behavior, either.** Darn. I had the perfect response here, and I would have delivered it except that I think I'm probably just one more "admined" from being banned forever. Oh well. Anyway, Jon, aren't you from San Francisco? I'd think you'd be used to all the freaks by now.
Originally Posted By Mr X **It is simply something that we here all (I would HOPE!) do not tolerate, or even wish to tolerate** You are making some broad assumptions here Jon. I love metal. In fact, my favorite bands as a kid were Megadeth, Metallica, Van Halen, and Motley Crue (for very different reasons)..and a few others. I couldn't stand pop except for the R&B kind. I also liked, AS A KID, Miles Davis, Jon Coltraine, Buddy Rich, Tchaikovski, Berlioz and Bernstein. I guess you could say I love all kinds of music. Well, except for country & western. I'm completely intolorant of that music and the stupid outfits and dances their fans insist on performing. Is it okay for me to not want THAT element around me? The real question is, what can I really do about it? Bout the same as you can, nothing. But, if Disney wants to keep out "that element", so be it. I do agree with Dave, they may dress like freaks and wear 8 noserings, but I've never met an unpleasant death metal fan. The more you know...
Originally Posted By jonvn "Is it okay for me to not want THAT element around me?" You are entitled to not have anything you don't want around you. "The real question is, what can I really do about it?" Avoid the types of areas these things are done in. "I've never met an unpleasant death metal fan." Apparently they have, because something has given rise to Disney not wanting them. They didn't just pull this out of a hat one day.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Anyway, Jon, aren't you from San Francisco? I'd think you'd be used to all the freaks by now." Interesting thing. What it's done is made me actually quite a bit LESS tolerant of these sorts of things. I've met a lot of folks who come to SF from all over the country who are freaks in their home town, and they invade here. So they all show up, dye their hair odd colors, have lots of piercings and tattoos, and have to prove to the world how unique they are by doing the exact same thing all these other whack jobs do. The behavior is generally unpleasant to deal with. They are haughty and think they are special. They're not. They're misfits. But that's fine. I really don't have a problem with anyone doing anything they like to themselves, or associating with whomever anyone wants. I will think what I will of their choices, and leave it at that. I mention it here because it's something to discuss. People seem to think that if you jam 200 pieces of metal into the flesh on your face, everyone is just happy and loves you all the same. They don't. They just don't say anything.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I think some people are assuming that fans of metal bands are inherently dangerous people.>> Not necessarily. Just as most people who listen to Gansta Rap don't commit crimes. But if the music is offensive (and I admit to not being an expert in heavy metal, but what little I have heard is unsavory), then I would say that there are venues that are more proper than the DL Resort. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they should bring back Annette Funicello and Bobby Rydel (sp?). But if its played on property it shouldn't advocate violence, racism or sexism or extreme vulgarity, IMHO.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<"I've never met an unpleasant death metal fan.">> Even if the fans behave themselves I still cannot understand why people want bands to perform music that glorifies violence on Disney property. I just don't get it. I can only imagine Walt Disney's reaction if he could have seen the stuff performed on DLR property today. To think that he found carnies to be unsavory. I can just see him walking into HOB while some lead signer is firing off F-Bombs. Yeah, that's the Disney magic! But like I said earlier, I think that current management tried to cast its net as wide as possible to attract a larger demographic, only to realize that they cast it too wide.
Originally Posted By alexbook OC Weekly's music blog, "Heard Mentality," has some articles about this. It seems that Orange County's best music newspaper is having trouble getting any sort of comment from anybody at HoB or Disney or Live Nation (the company that books acts for HoB) regarding the cancellations. I won't post a direct link, because of foul language on the site, but if you go to ocweekly.com and click on "Heard Mentality," you'll find the articles. Latest is titled "House of No Comment." Don't all the cancelled bands share a record label? Could there be some sort of contract dispute between them and HoB or Disney or Live Nation? This is pure speculation, but it's interesting. From ocweekly.com: >>We don't know, but what we do know is that this isn't about metal, weird band names or potentially offensive lyrics. Still booked and on-sale at the Anaheim HOB as of today: *A Halloween Static-X, Shadows Fall and 3 Inches of Blood bill (it even says “metal†on the HOB ticket site). *A Sept. 30 show with German hessians Edguy. *A Nov. 7 show with New York death metal icons Suffocation, featuring songs like “Bind, Torture, Kill,†“Entrails of You†and “Involuntary Slaughter.†*A King Diamond show booked for next April 27. Dude – no one is blacker, darker, offensive-er or Satanic-er than the King! *And, on Sept. 29, the most reviled, shocking and blood-curdling band of all: Hootie & the Blowfish. Just what the **** is going on here, anyway? And why aren't people talking?<<
Originally Posted By mstaft ^^^Lots of trash- the continued dumbing down and demoralizing of America.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Apparently they have, because something has given rise to Disney not wanting them. They didn't just pull this out of a hat one day.** My assumption would be that it's entirely based on the way those kids dress.
