Originally Posted By dagobert >>>The former - the problem is generating sufficient growth in that market to satisfy investors. It is a very mature market so the easiest thing is to raise prices and reduce costs.<<< Thanks for answering. It's still weird to hear the words "cost cutting" from TDR. Usually these words come from DLP.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>>It may not be as grand in size and scale as Jubilation! overall was...but I think it works very well. I could see the opening of the parade needing a bit more of a 'wow' factor though... but a "cheap WDW bicycle parades"...please, not even in the slightest. And "walking characters at ground level"...not really. Most are one the carousel bikes or on floats.<<< Maybe I was not cleared in my remarks but I was referring to the opening act of the parade.. as there were characters at ground level and Goofy on a ground level bike-like vehicle. It didn't resonate with me. The beginning is weak but it does build after the 3rd float and impresses until the end. Even under a reduced budget, this is a parade that would break the budget at WDW's MK. >>>OLC is cutting costs? I think it's the first time ever I've heard something like that.<<< This new OLC budgetary mentality has been discussed in disney forums for at least 4 years now. Celebrations like the massive 15th anniversary we will never see again in Tokyo. But what little they do, they do quite well.. Just take a look at the new floats in Dreamlights. They are stunning units IMO. >>>I know the Japanese love their shows, but I would love if WDW's castle show and stage disappeared never to return.<<< I love my shows too and I am not Japanese, but I'm a Disney guest that expects the best from a company that tends to overprice some of it's parks and over hype some of it's park attractions and shows. In regards to Dream Along show, It's a stinker. So was the TDL "borrowed" Cinderellabration back in 2005. But blame it on the mismanagement and budget cuts these shows at WDW have suffered. May I suggest you take a look at TDL's version of Cinderellabration and "Gift of Dreams" (the original version of "dream along wirh Mickey of sorts) online to see why the Castle stage shows at the MK FAIL, and people like you would rather see them go, along with the stage. You may be interested to know that TDL has NO castle stage permanently built. Every show they perform has be have it's custom built stage, which understandably add cost to an aspect of the experience that doesn't seem to be a money maker for the company. I do tend to like it in TDL when stage shows are not performed due to the clean and expansive feel of the forecourt, but I do want to see the big shows come back for limited engagements and special events. Additionally...you may be surprised that the MK set the standards of those shows back in the day when "Sparkling Christmas Spectacular" and "4Th of JUly Spectacular" used to cover the entire castle forecourt and walkways leading up to the castle entrance. Now..THOSE were the glory days at the MK park, now long gone. I bet you didn't know that.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>This new OLC budgetary mentality has been discussed in disney forums for at least 4 years now. Celebrations like the massive 15th anniversary we will never see again in Tokyo. But what little they do, they do quite well.. Just take a look at the new floats in Dreamlights. They are stunning units IMO.<<< Dreamlights looks really wonderful. I don't know anything about TDR's 15th Anniversary. But the celebrations and other festivals always looked fantastic at TDR.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I think my trip to TDL was during its 15th anniversary (1998, Festival of Fools motif on the tickets?). Other than the tickets themselves, and couple merchandise items, I really don't remember anything that was specifically anniversary-related. Maybe we were there during the wrong part of the year (late July/early August) for the height of the events, since the actual anniversary is in the spring, or maybe we were too busy trying to rush from one attraction to the next, but I literally have no recollection of it being particularly extravagant
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ I think that was 1997 - the 15th anniversary was the first proper seasonal split (4 different seasons) and each had a carnival theme - Mickey and Minnie in Jester costumes. Dagobert - the 15th was a truly incredible anniversary. The various parades and stage shows are available on DVD - they were spectacular in size and scale. They overrused the two theme songs "Viva Magic" and "Disney Carnivale" but it was a great period in the park's history.
Originally Posted By dagobert I think I have to do some research online about TDR's 15th Anniversary. I already liked DLP's 15th Anniversary with the flags on Main Street, so I guess TDR's birthday would have impressed me.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN What Lee said. But sadly DLP's 15th did not reach the heals of TDL's 15th, so yes, you would have been quite impressed. The merchandise I collected during that period are some of the most cherished items in my Disney anniversaries collection. I loved how they adapted the carnival theme to each season of the year. It was TDL at it's very best.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>But sadly DLP's 15th did not reach the heals of TDL's 15th, so yes, you would have been quite impressed. The merchandise I collected during that period are some of the most cherished items in my Disney anniversaries collection. I loved how they adapted the carnival theme to each season of the year. It was TDL at it's very best.<<< I know that DLP will never reach TDR standards, but at least the 15th birthday celebrations was nice in terms of theming and they offered some nice merchandise as well. But don't get me started on the merchandise offered now. It's bad, although DLP made some improvements over the last years. I hope one day DLP will buy another parade from TDR, like Fantillusion.
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite I'm curious as to what kind of budget Steven Davison has to work with for the upcoming "Festival of Fantasy"...
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite I'm curious as to what kind of budget Steven Davison has to work with for the upcoming "Festival of Fantasy"...
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>>I hope one day DLP will buy another parade from TDR, like Fantillusion.<<< Honestly? I hope NOT. DLP took and epic parade and edited it down, took out performers and some float units, got rid of many costumes and added some really bad ones to it, especially in the final act. I was disgusted. If you are lucky, you may even get to see the show modes, which were performed flawlessly every night in TDL. DLP, like the MK, DL, SDL, and HKDL need unique parades to set them apart in the entertainment offerings. DLP disappointed me sadly with the rehash of the old 15th anniversary parade retrofitted for the 20th. You guys got robbed. But at least you have a nice castle show that didn't cost the company too much to produce. We at TDR get robbed every night with the lamest fireworks now presented in any Disney park. That head of OLC now in charge needs to go.
Originally Posted By dagobert The "new" parade at DLP isn't good, especially the new soundtrack. We only watched it once. Disney Dreams on the other hand is a fantastic addition to the park. I loved it. It may not be as grand as World of Color, but WDI did a good job on that. I know Fantillusion was scaled down, but I liked it nonetheless, but I can only compare it to SpectroMagic. And I prefered Fantillusion over SpectroMagic. When I was a kid, I have seen MSEP, but I can hardly remember it.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Honestly? I hope NOT. DLP took and epic parade and edited it down, took out performers and some float units, got rid of many costumes and added some really bad ones to it, especially in the final act.>> To this day I'm still confused as to why you go to great lengths to import a parade and upgrade the electrical system to then slash floats and the operating budget. It was always a disjointed mess at DLP and I'm glad I haven't seen it in the park for a long long time. I wasn't that enamored by the TDL original either - it was way too long and the "reveals" were too slow - but I appreciated the effort and scale. It just always felt like a Fantasmic! ripp-off to me. Dreamlights though goes from strength to strength - the Pixar floats have always been the weakest part and the changes have definitely improved them. The genie is also amazing.
Originally Posted By leemac <<We at TDR get robbed every night with the lamest fireworks now presented in any Disney park. That head of OLC now in charge needs to go.>> We are constantly told that it is due to Urayasu noise regulations. At least the show now has elements like the Mickey head firework. It is still a dull show though. Whereas HKDL has a great fireworks show that would be perfect if they actually invested in the air launch system.
Originally Posted By dagobert It seems I'm the only one who has liked Fantillusion. But I'm not as Disney-experienced as you guys. The only nighttime parades I know are Fantillusion and SpectroMagic.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It was also annoying because DLP had and still has a castle stage, but it was never used.>> The fact that it is still even there for meet 'n' greet has always perplexed me. It is a nightmare venue to program (not just exposed to the elements with no proscenium but no backstage either) but then why keep it around? I think the Pooh show was the last to occupy that space and it was moved to the old Fantasyland Theatre.
Originally Posted By leemac <<You may be interested to know that TDL has NO castle stage permanently built. Every show they perform has be have it's custom built stage, which understandably add cost to an aspect of the experience that doesn't seem to be a money maker for the company.>> Just to clarify - the modular stage was used for all of the shows for the last ten years - it was just modified for each show. They didn't build a whole new stage each time. Obviously there is a cost for each modification but it is significantly less than using the modular one. I don't recall seeing it backstage last month so I think it has probably been axed entirely.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>It may not be as grand as World of Color, but WDI did a good job on that.<< While Dreams may not have the huge scale that WOC has, I think it is a much better all-around show. WOC relies on the same couple of tricks for the entire show, and gives away all of the most impressive technical elements early in the show. From then on, you're just repeating the same tricks over and over, with different music and colors. The way that they're able to insert and remove segments of the show with no real impact on the overarching quality of the show just proves how weak the 'storyline' flow is. To me, Dreams did a much better job of pacing itself. It uses the projections and fountains well, but it doesn't use either of them enough that you get tired of them by the end of the show. Plus, the addition of fireworks really helps take it over the top. It also has some great musical moments that you'd never see in the US (like Out There from Hunchback; I'm still sad that the Hellfire/Bald Mountain portion of WOC was removed, as it was the strongest part of the original show). Plus, being able to sit through the entire show is a huge bonus, even if there are a couple guests in front of you who decide they need to stand
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite "The way that they're able to insert and remove segments of the show with no real impact on the overarching quality of the show just proves how weak the 'storyline' flow is." hmmm, I disagree with that. Dreams at Paris is a more structured linear show, and rightfully so. World of Color is more like a fireworks presentation, in that there is a structure to it, but it's not as rigid. It's more so a collection of moments that take the audience different places emotionally, but it doesn't tell a specific linear story and really isn't meant to. I think the malleable nature of the show works because of that. I don't think it's a weakness.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros If WOC were about 15 minutes shorter, I would be fine with its current style. However, since it is so long, I think it needs more flow. It doesn't need to be a real 'story' with characters connecting the whole thing, but I do think that it needs to build up to a big moment for the finale. As it is now, after the Pines of Rome and Colors of the Wind segments, there are no more new 'tricks', and no fountains bigger than we've already seen. If this were a short-ish presentation (like fireworks), I'd be fine with that, but given that it's the third longest single experience in the resort at the moment (after Aladdin and a full lap on the DLRR), I expect a little bit more showmanship woven into the experience There are also several parts with extended dialogue that take any momentum that the show may have had, and bring it to a screeching halt (Buzz & Woody, Heimlich, Dory & Marlin). Given the language barriers at DLP, the show is crafted to focus on the music (similar to F!), and is able to keep the momentum rolling from one scene into the next (with the possible exception of the beginning of the Jungle Book segment, with the cool jazz from the film that I was never particularly fond of)
