Originally Posted By leemac ^^ I was a kid when it opened on 1 Oct '83. Never liked it even when I rode it for the last time in '95.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom So instead of what we had we get a "dressed up" version of Mission to Mars. And now everyone get to "play" crash test dummy. Not an improvement in my opinion. Yes perhaps WoM and Horizons needed some sprucing up. I really don't see you can compare TT or MS to them. Unless you like thrill rides or rides that similate "near death experiences". So this is probably the Disney trend now. Thrill rides, thrill rides and more thrill rides in every park.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I'm not a huge fan either. I must be the only person who doesn't love Spiderman. I think it is okay but like most Universal experience it leaves me feeling sick (Back to the Future is the worst for me).<< I think Spiderman is VR done right. If Midway Mania is half the ride Spiderman is I would consider it to be a huge success for Disney. Especially with such loved, funny characters like the Toy Story crew. I agree with you on BTTF! What a miserable attraction. A big shame, the movie deserves such a better one. I like the rumors of the intamin launch replacement. 88 mph! >>It wasn't under his watch so no biggie. << I know, but like Paul Pressler it's tough to seperate disagreement with their POV and the fact that they both are, I think, very nice guys. That's what I think Bob Iger has going for him. So far it looks like we will have a super nice guy who also at the same time knows what his limits are. After 22 years that's a welcomed change. >>M:S never cost as much as people have surmized. It came in under budget after the contractors were removed from the project but that doesn't mean that the money couldn't be used elsewhere.<< I have heard you say that before and I don't take your info lightly. However, the only lonely measly person that I know who works at Disney has different info and as unpleasent as it is for me to cite Marcie as factual collaboration, he stated close to the same 'line'. >>That said I hate Horizons with a passion. And Tom was a Show Writer on that so maybe I do have some objectivity!<< Yeah, no kidding. The same thing with Braverman's involvement with Future World. I don't fault anyone for not liking Horizons. I really try not to come across as one who is brow-beating people into remembering Horizons or JII with love. What I do find fault with is when people try to justify their removal or popularity because of the apparent lack of line. Something that I turn-around and use for M:S or some others use for MK's POTC. What I think has been vindicated is that there was a lot of love for Horizons and JII and the line in the late years is not a good measure of the attraction. Just as with MK's or DL's POTC. Anyways, liking or disliking Horizons is as meaningless as me liking or disliking Pooh in the Grand Disney scheme of things. Outside of that, I do think history has proven that Horizon-like or even Pooh-like attractions are better for Disney and better for the guest rather than another sim.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I too do not care for Superman and the only ride that consistently makes ( made ) me more ill than Back to the Future was Body Wars ( for whatever reason - as Star Tours does not) ....<< As much as I disliked Body Wars I thought BTTF 10x worse! Body Wars was a lost opportunity coming out of the fad of flight simulators. As ATIS hinted in the 60s, that is a concept that is ripe for a full scale attraction. In today's world a Spiderman sort of VR experience. Especially the shrinking component. >>Also, while I really enjoyed WoM -- Horizons was just Ok for me....I thought it was over rated...but that is just one man's opinion, nothing more..was somewhat boring.<< For me it was (see everyone is prolly different!): JII Horizons WOM then SSE. All 4 were extremely good in my eyes, but that would be my rank - ironic that SSE appeals more now with the loss of the other 3.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I really don't see you can compare TT or MS to them. << I agree Tom. I think just as many people who actually rode WOM or Horizons would agree than the amount who would disagree. TT and M:S are both examples of WDI being in love with technology over anything else. Something that I hope will be shaken up by the Pixar guys (not that they have much room to talk right now w/ Cars)
Originally Posted By leemac <<What I do find fault with is when people try to justify their removal or popularity because of the apparent lack of line. Something that I turn-around and use for M:S or some others use for MK's POTC.>> I agree with that Mike. I can usually see the reasons why but don't necessarily agree. Alien Encounter was one big cock-up for me. Just a stupid decision dictated by WDW. And that is one that privately WDI put their hands up for and say "we screwed up". What is worse is when you ask "when are you going to fix it?" the answer is "how do you start?" The other funny one for me was riding Everest with Don Goodman and as we reach the twisted track he turns away abruptly. I asked him later about that and he turned to Fitz and said "Next time I promise I'll give you the money for that." It is that stinking bird. Fitz actually made them re-program it so that it went down as soon as you reach the switch. Originally it was to just hang there. In short mistakes get made and it is all a question of impact. Does that dumb bird really affect your overal experience on EE? Not really. Does the fact that SGE! stinks to high heaven from the dodgy script to the poor execution? You betcha.
Originally Posted By leemac <<TT and M:S are both examples of WDI being in love with technology over anything else.>> TT I would agree with but I do think M:S has a compelling story. People really seem to buy into it from the pre-show though. I'm not convinced it was ever required as an attraction at Epcot but I thought that the interactivity made it stand out. Just my humble opinion though. The interesting thing is the power that the Living Characters Program currently has at WDI. They are responsible for so much product now and it only seems to be increasing. The question is whether the technology can be paired story.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The same thing with Braverman's involvement with Future World.>> Barry really didn't like the direction FW took in the mid-90s. The problem was that WDW management pointed to attendance and said that was all they needed to demonstrate that FW wasn't working. I know people accuse him of being a "Yes" man but for whatever reason the parks had the power back then. My worry is that that power is coming back in spades under Jay. I do have every respect for the exec team at WDI right now and they are trying to move heaven and earth for what they stand for (DCA especially) but it is tough when you don't hold the purse strings.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Good to hear. >>The question is whether the technology can be paired story.<< I am of high hopes that it will be. Those DVC maintenance fees keep rising...
Originally Posted By danyoung >The interesting thing is the power that the Living Characters Program currently has at WDI. They are responsible for so much product now and it only seems to be increasing. The question is whether the technology can be paired story.< I don't begin to know what this means. Explain, please?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The other funny one for me was riding Everest with Don Goodman and as we reach the twisted track he turns away abruptly. I asked him later about that and he turned to Fitz and said "Next time I promise I'll give you the money for that." It is that stinking bird. Fitz actually made them re-program it so that it went down as soon as you reach the switch. Originally it was to just hang there.>> It is still a bird on a stick. I've been to haunted houses put on by local high schools that have more realistic figures. They could have at least used some of the cheaper Big Thunder type AAs. No excuse. Goodman should be embarrassed. <<In short mistakes get made and it is all a question of impact. Does that dumb bird really affect your overal experience on EE? Not really. Does the fact that SGE! stinks to high heaven from the dodgy script to the poor execution? You betcha. >> Point taken. But everyone involved with greenlighting Stitch should have lost their jobs.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >The interesting thing is the power that the Living Characters Program currently has at WDI. They are responsible for so much product now and it only seems to be increasing. The question is whether the technology can be paired story.< <<I don't begin to know what this means. Explain, please?>> Think of things like Turtle Talk at Epcot and DCA, Stitch Encounter at HKDL and Monster's Laugh Floor (coming soon to MK) as well as Lucky the Dino Marketing Tool and you have some idea. It's all about having guests interact with the characters/technology as more active participants than watching Pirates pillage will leisurely cruising by. And, while I like the technology, I do fear it'll be overused by Disney at the expense of traditional type ride-thrus.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I do fear it'll be overused by Disney at the expense of traditional type ride-thrus.<< Of course it will be. Just as anything with merit is over-hyped and mass-distributed until anything that was special about it in the first place becomes wasted away to nothing. And to be fair, some ideas for attractions were overused. Flight Traing Simulators, 3D Movies incl/ squirts of water, and even Claude's projections became a little too prevelant.
Originally Posted By leemac LCP is more than just the interactive movie attractions these days. A lot of the technology in the new MI attraction at TDL will be deployed by LCP. Their goal is to populate the parks with characters in numerous forms including CGI and AA.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It is still a bird on a stick. I've been to haunted houses put on by local high schools that have more realistic figures. They could have at least used some of the cheaper Big Thunder type AAs. No excuse. Goodman should be embarrassed.>> Nope. It is a question of priorities. And where do you draw the line? It should have been a fully-fledged outdoor AA? You can extend that argument to a lot of things. Personally I don't think an AA would help there anyhow. There is too much airtime, period.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Point taken. But everyone involved with greenlighting Stitch should have lost their jobs.>> Extreme position. You have to look at the contribution that the imagineers on that job have made to the parks in general. Take Kevin Rafferty as show writer. He has spent twenty years scripting attractions and he usually has a great eye. It's Tough to be a Bug, Mickey's PhilharMagic, MI at DCA....
Originally Posted By danyoung >It is a question of priorities. And where do you draw the line? It should have been a fully-fledged outdoor AA?< When it's a key effect, the only one in that position of the train sitting stock still, then yes, it should have been a fully-fledged outdoor AA. And from the above quoted conversation, it looks like the Disney folks knew it.
Originally Posted By ChiMike I agree Dan. >>Take Kevin Rafferty as show writer. He has spent twenty years scripting attractions and he usually has a great eye. It's Tough to be a Bug, Mickey's PhilharMagic, MI at DCA....<< None of these guys should be immune from mistakes, including Baxter. I was one that had no problem at all that Bruce Gordon left. I'm not saying immediate terminations are practical, but I do think there need to be consequences, at the very least demotions. Get some fresh blood up in the upper ranks and maybe there will be even a better outcome for Monsters/DCA.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Some of these guys are just as guilty as Eisner in thinking their position is some sort of monarical birthright. They have become complacent within there position and the product of late has shown it. I'm sure it's tough when subordinates as well as customers are consistently telling you how much of a genius you are. Marty Sklar is another example. Lets hope (I don't think it will) it doesn't happen to Joe Rohde (<----- notice Labuda) That's why I love the practical guys like Ward Kimball.
Originally Posted By leemac Dan, my point is that I don't think it would really add to the experience significantly. Personally I don't think they handled the reverse as well as they should have. I don't think a flapping AA would make any difference.
