Originally Posted By vbdad55 Peoples positive or negative reviews aren't absolute they are simply part of a trend in the expectations of Disney and Disney's standards. When there are more negative attitudes it should speak towards a trend that Disney is disappointing more than in the past. If it is positive such as DL lately, then it should reflect a trend that Disney is working harder than in the past. ------- I think it's actually more complicated than that-- attitudes in general are negative right now-- outside the 'Disney' world as well. Economy is in the crapper - politics is a nightmare reagrless of whether one is a GOP/Dem/independent -- world issues abound -- housing market sucks -- education issues are mounting as we continue to slide in world standing -- morals/ethics taking a hit no matter where one hitches their wagon -- crime ( look at what is happening here ) serious issue in many places.. it all adds up-- my children's generation has little chance of hitting expectations little alone exceeding them... Many people on here who are the most negative right now are the generation behind me. Not all certainly, but many. so your comment about expectations is certainly at the crux - but I believe it is modified by all the other expectations people have going in the crapper at the same time as well. Again, this is not to say there are not some issues at WDW in particular- there certainly are, nowhere is perfect- and the WDW of the 1970's 1980's and 1990's was not either..but the tone here has become so much more negative I can't help but believe it is multiple factors. That's OK-- I can filter the dead on hits with those that are , let's say, containing more opinion than fact... I would wonder about a new Disney reader here thouh- they might not be able to, but let's face it, this is not a huge community either..and most people are pretty well versed in their Disney background. So it's just an observation...no real concern how it continues going forward.. as long as it doesn't get personal ( and it rarely does here) - it is what it is
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>>Nothing that I care to share yet. But I do know the BoD wasn't at WDW for any sort of normal function. As I've said before, this isn't something we're likely to hear about formally until it happens, which of course the ignorant fanbois and podcasters and bloggers will take as a sign there is nothing to it. That's just not how these things go. So ... we move back to issues like monorails falling apart or that idea that Satan proposed ... FP ... anyone want to talk about refillable mugs?<<<< Well talking about monorails or FP or Mugs is at least discussing known realities. All we have here is speculation and the close to obnoxious "Nothing I care to share yet" comments. If this comes to be true, and I'm not saying it isn't, then this is the best kept secret since the location of the D-day invasion. I have been on CM based Boards and not a single word has been uttered, hinted or even brushed against. That is a good secret. Perhaps when they do sell, the executives involved can get a job with the CIA or Seal 6, cause they are good. And "Ignorant" is a better description of folks that believe everything they hear without a shred of evidence to support it. One persons word, no matter how reliable is not a reason to just fold the tent and go home. When and if this becomes a reality quite frankly it won't really affect me. I don't care who owns it as long as some degree of what I enjoy remains in place. If it no longer is an interest to me then I don't care if it goes down the tube faster than a supersonic jet. I'll find another hobby!
Originally Posted By dshyates Well, I haven't changed my tune since my first visit to DCA in May 2001. There just seems to be a lot more like me these days.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>I think it's actually more complicated than that-- attitudes in general are negative right now-- outside the 'Disney' world as well. << You know VBDad that very well could be the point for a lot of WDW posters. I think you are right. A lot of these folks are relatively new guests and became guests during times when it was slightly cheaper to attend and the economy was unfortunately on overdrive. So this is their first economic slump while addicted to the 'dust. I get that and I think you are right. However, that doesn't stop the complete euphoria that a lot of DL regulars have been in. California is a wrecked economy, yet you are seeing a lot of good vibes in the DL crowd. So I still put a lot of stock in the fact that people aren't that complicated. They will be harmoniously attracted to quality. It was Walt's view, and I think the right one. The economy isn't hurting folks reactions to Potter, is it?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The economy isn't hurting folks reactions to Potter, is it? ----- how many people here talking about potter have visited it 25- 50 -100 - 250 or more times over the course of 25 years ? Also it serves as a foil for 'why didn't Disney get this ?" Not saying it's not a quality attraction but I can guarantee you if Disney opened a whole new loand and it had a total of 3 rides- 2 of which had been re-themed, not newly generated - people here would be tearing thema near backside. They won't say that now, but it is true. Nothing Disney can do right now is good enough for some posters ( surely not all) - and they are angry- I get that. DL Ap's are a whole other breed- they live and die for DL because it is their hometown pal. Simply don't have that kind of demographics or feel for WDW visitors - never will.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<They won't say that now, but it is true.>> Not if the new ride was the greatest ride on the planet and better anything they had did in the past 20 years.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 So this is their first economic slump while addicted to the 'dust. --- I know so many people like this- who want the80's 90's back-- and DIsney shows at collectible conventions -- high quality collectibles from Waterford / Armani etc... people had disposable income to the point where price increases were a nuisance, not a reason to cancel a trip. again, it is not the only factor, but I do believe it is one.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Not saying it's not a quality attraction but I can guarantee you if Disney opened a whole new loand and it had a total of 3 rides- 2 of which had been re-themed, not newly generated - people here would be tearing thema near backside. They won't say that now, but it is true.<< That's hogwash. Sorry VBDAD, but you just gave Disney the biggest pass in the world! It's not just about Potter. The same dynamic occured when EPCOT got Test Track and IOA got Spiderman. Spiderman was the #1 theme park attraction in the WORLD for what five, six years? Disney has simply lost the will or ability to out do anyone else. Disney produces Buzz Lightyear, and Universal produces Men In Black. Night and day. .. And what's the real reason that everybody cites why Disney doesn't have to do Spiderman, Men In Black, Potter? Because they don't have to. That's why. Because they don't have to expend the effort or money. Because it doesn't matter to their financial goals. So spare me the whole, if Disney did it, it would still be unpopular thing. We should only be so lucky to have them completely redo an area of MGM into a money-generating blockbuster like Potter, have built their take on Spiderman at The Great Movie Ride, or build a ride as complex as Men In Black at JII.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>DL Ap's are a whole other breed- they live and die for DL because it is their hometown pal. Simply don't have that kind of demographics or feel for WDW visitors - never will.<< Demographics don't play into this. We are talking about online fanboy sentiment. That's universal. Just because locals live and die by DL, didn't stop them from out and out bloodlust for over a decade as they saw obvious incompetence on a weekly basis. You can love something and it can be 'hometown' but still be very critical. As a Cubs fan I would expect you to recognize that dynamic and the intense negativity with love. I understood why people threw tomatoes at me in 2000, before 9/11, when I was complaining left and right about the wholesale MBA takeover of departments in Orlando. But here in 2011, I really can't understand why anyone would pooh-poo folks for complaining about simple concepts relating to Safety, Courtesy, Show and Efficiency. And in that order.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>DL Ap's are a whole other breed- they live and die for DL because it is their hometown pal.<< You can say that again! As obnoxious and entitled as they are, they got plush mountain out of the Penny Arcade and kept the Muppets from replacing Mr. Lincoln. (And it was the loud howls of the locals that did this.) Over at the Magic Kingdom it seems anything can happen short of selling the doorknobs and hinges.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<We should only be so lucky to have them completely redo an area of MGM into a money-generating blockbuster like Potter, have built their take on Spiderman at The Great Movie Ride, or build a ride as complex as Men In Black at JII.>>> Yes, yes, yes, and yes! My love for Universal attractions has nothing to do with me being pissed of at the way Disney runs their parks and everything to do with their attractions BEING AWESOME.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 That's hogwash. Sorry VBDAD, but you just gave Disney the biggest pass in the world! --- sorry, I stand by what I said, I believe you are in denial on this as there is so much vitriol built up. I did give Disney nothing on this..but I am not giving Uni a pass either. They built a great immersive 'land' and one very good ride. Sure as hell nothing wrong with thaty- I tip my hat to them for doing what they did. They also secured the hottest property available to do it with- smart move. The fact you see me calling it out as a 'pass' to Disney shows me how angry- but also blinded by rage- you indeed are. I am not 'passing' Disney for failing to meet the Uni challenge with a nice upgraded Fantasyland, but surely not any competition for the boy wizard. I am glad they are upgrading and took out crap like the Poo playground that had no business ever going in.... but will never see the FL upgrade as any comparison to what Uni did, I new ride or not. So your statement about me giving Disney a pass is nonsense-- and not built in the reality of what I have been saying at all.. I promise you if DIsney really did build an addition to any of the parks to really counter Potter and it only involved 1 NEW ride- they would be skewered here....I am 100% confident.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 As a Cubs fan I would expect you to recognize that dynamic and the intense negativity with love ---- I guess you don't have a TV any more to see the empty seats-- or the fact that Cubs fans such as myself have stopped going to the games... but hey- rip away--I expect no less
Originally Posted By dshyates You know if Disney built a new area as immersive as Hogsmeade and an attraction as great as forbidden journey I don't think anyone would complain.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 not from what I read here on a daily basis... I agree they shouldn't complain-- but they would and if they deny it, I'm not buying it. Some have passed the point of no return on their anger at Disney. That's their opinion and they're entitled to it.. but not everyone who doesn;t get aboard the train to rip all things is an apologist.
Originally Posted By dshyates I have recently compliment Disney on se of the stuff they have done. I love Via Napoli. And I like the new hitch hiking ghosts. The queue is a little over the top for the somber tone of the beginning of the attraction. And I hate the slap activated noise makers and the water playground feature. And while not all that new I really like La Casa de Tequila.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Memo: Via Napoli is not done by Disney. It's a separately owned place, built by another company but paying rent for Disney's space inside EPCOT. I could not compliment disney for that, and neither should you.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well talking about monorails or FP or Mugs is at least discussing known realities. All we have here is speculation and the close to obnoxious "Nothing I care to share yet" comments. >> And what would you expect, Goof? I can't report things when they aren't known. And no matter what I put out here (and please stay awake for my next post on this thread because it is a doozy ... will have passive aggressive fanbois and podcasters whining from sea to shining sea!), all I'll get is typical 'that's just speculation' or the like (you should see how nasty some of these online crazies can be). I readily admit this thread was started speculation WITH A FIRM FOUNDATION IN FACT. I even doubted for quite a while that there was much going on of late in this department. And then ... well, let's just say things changed. I'm sorry if you found my comment 'close to obnoxious' as you should know by now, I always aim for obnoxious. Clearly, I just missed my goal. But my 'speculation' is a helluva lot more important to what your future WDW trips will be like than any thread on monorails, FP or mugs (and I've been a soda thief proudly since 1997!) <<If this comes to be true, and I'm not saying it isn't, then this is the best kept secret since the location of the D-day invasion. I have been on CM based Boards and not a single word has been uttered, hinted or even brushed against. That is a good secret.>> And when did you hear about Disney buying ABC/Cap Cities? (at least there was chatter Eisner wanted a network then) When did you hear Disney was in talks to buy Pixar? When did you hear Disney was in talks to buy Marvel? These are serious matters. VERY serious. I don't know anything about what CMs are saying on CM boards, since I'm not a CM, I don't haunt those realms. But who do you think knows what's been going down at Disney? And do you think if any of the CMs who post online had an inkling of what was discussed and agreed on (see my next post ... it's a gem!) that they would place it online and immediately lose their job and, possibly, face legal action? When you do deals like this, you do have the secrecy of a D-Day invasion. You just have to. That is why they intentionally fed false information to MAGICal webmasters and others. They needed a plausible answer if someone, somehow ran into Iger or any of the officials involved. Amazing that we still haven't seen one photo. I'd say Disney did a damn fine job in keeping this quiet. <<Perhaps when they do sell, the executives involved can get a job with the CIA or Seal 6, cause they are good. And "Ignorant" is a better description of folks that believe everything they hear without a shred of evidence to support it. One persons word, no matter how reliable is not a reason to just fold the tent and go home.>> I agree. And I have questioned this at every step of the way. No one needed more answers and evidence than I did. I still don't have as much as I'd like. Just enough to post what I have ... well, and what I am about to. I have no agenda in this. No pony in the race, so to speak. I just want to know what's up. And I am not an simple fanboi who believes that Disney would never sell the parks or some such BS. I do understand how companies like Disney operate. And I totally get where Iger wants to take this company, and his road map for getting there doesn't include stopping to add pavilions at EPCOT, new parades at MK, lubed yetis at DAK or a fleet of new monorails at WDW. <<When and if this becomes a reality quite frankly it won't really affect me. I don't care who owns it as long as some degree of what I enjoy remains in place. If it no longer is an interest to me then I don't care if it goes down the tube faster than a supersonic jet. I'll find another hobby! >> Well, it will affect you as you stated above ... because if it happens, things will be different. Likely better.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK, I get it, you guys/gals lust for information ... almost like an addict craving a hit from the pixie dust pipe, even when it appears empty. Well, I've thought about this since being told the following over the weekend. I really wanted to add a second source as I ALWAYS do when talking something of this magnitude. But I well realize that may be almost impossible. So, I have a choice: either spill what I have or don't. Yet, the craving for info is unwavering, like a midnight pizza run. And I trust my source. This isn't a MK custodian who found something in Phil Holmes' trash ... or a TDO secretary who doesn't like being hit on by her boss ... or, my favorite of all, 'Frank the bus driver' who took you and your family from PO to EPCOT on July 4th. So, I hate burying the lead as they call it in journalistic circles (not that I know anything about media) ... here is what I was told: The BoD of TWDC has approved the sale of P&R. That was the primary, quite possibly the only, reason the entire board met in Orlando June 28-30. This does NOT mean that P&R has been sold, just that the BoD of TWDC is in agreement regarding the divestiture of the division. And that means Disney and Bob Iger have the green light to go ahead and make a deal for the sale of P&R if they can find a willing buyer and the price is right. The Prince, contrary to some folks' assertions, was in Orlando and at WDW during the same period. He met with The Weatherman and other senior executives. No deal, however, was reached between the parties and the Saudi billionaire was just one of SEVERAL investors/investment groups to tour the resort during the weeks of June 27 and July 4. In Sun Valley at Herb Allen's annual get-together of media's major players, Jay Rasulo (with wife Barbara in tow) was reported by a reliable source to be incensed at Iger and Staggs for 'doing an end-around' of him as he saw it with the agreement to move ahead with a sale of P&R voted up by the BoD. According to the source, Rasulo believes he himself 'positioned the parks and resorts for a sale' and considers their current value and 'the leverage' they provide to TWDC largely the result of his work. (The source is a former, longtime executive with TWDC.) Also understand, if a sale happens then Jay likely will be out of the company (I know Leemac has already chimed in that he has attempted to hire a firm to place him with another major corporation, Jay not Lee). Staggs would remain to bridge to a new owner before ascending to being the true No. 2 at Disney and likely Bob's successor when he takes the money and runs after his current contract ends. None of this means a deal happens. Or doesn't. It just cements the idea in this Spirit's mind of what direction Disney wishes to take with its P&R business. And every decision made (from monorails running less to 1972 parades plodding along to parks being built in China without a full idea of what will actually be there at opening to new phases of Extreme Makeover Theme Park Edition that are collecting dust etc) by Disney from here on out until a deal is made or new management leads the company will be viewed thru that Spirited prism. Disney doesn't want to be in the P&R business. They don't have the stomach for what it requires. Iger and the BoD are in agreement. They likely have a PR campaign fashioned by fanboi fave Zenia Mucha to explain why this is a good thing for the parks if they are, indeed, sold. On June 29th, 2011, TWDC's BoD agreed in principle to terms that would allow the company to sell its P&R unit. I'm sorry, I can't make a deal happen tomorrow. And I can't get TWDC to deny they're in talks, so we'll just have to wait and see. It will depend on whether a buyer can be found willing to do this deal. This is a tough sell, but under the 'One Disney' umbrella, the BoD thinks it can be done and is already looking to push the proceeds into a stock buyback.
Originally Posted By Manfried If they have voted, as a public corporation they will have to file some paperwork.
