Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Just think about it...Disney is no longer the main attraction, it is the "heck, we might as well go to that one too" attraction." Do you really believe that is the case? Do you even think there's a chance it could happen? At the moment that seems improbable. "The trick will be to see if that continues to be the case. Uni would need to continue to add millions of guests every year to begin to be anything more than an annoying gnat bite." And that's what I've been trying to say all along. Universal has a hot new attraction on their hands, and I commend them for what they've done to raise the bar, but I think it's delusional to think that this represents a toe-to-toe struggle for tourist domination in Orlando.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^Disney will always be dominant. That's obvious But what I've been trying to say is that the mindset that Disney is the best and no one can come close to the level of detail they do is changing. With each new person that experiences Universal, that mindset is washing away. Now, do I think that Universal will ever match Disney's numbers? No, that would be pretty ludicrous. But the more people realize that there are competitors that match and in some places surpass Disney, the gap will no longer be gigantic like the past.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>The point is that IoA's attendance was in the toilet - so any movement up from the base is going to look very good. Sure they added 2m additional clicks for 2010 (when Potter was only open for little more than half the calendar year) but combined both of those Uni parks are probably getting as many guests as Epcot which runs to c.12m if the estimates are correct (I can't comment). So in short WDW is still the king of the swamps - that isn't going to change any time soon. The trick will be to see if that continues to be the case. Uni would need to continue to add millions of guests every year to begin to be anything more than an annoying gnat bite.<<< >>>I think it's delusional to think that this represents a toe-to-toe struggle for tourist domination in Orlando.<<< >>>Now, do I think that Universal will ever match Disney's numbers? No, that would be pretty ludicrous. But the more people realize that there are competitors that match and in some places surpass Disney, the gap will no longer be gigantic like the past.<<< So Disney cannot be overtaken, is that the just of what I'm reading? Why do you think that? Have none of you ever heard of General Motors? How about Bell Telephone? How about the hundreds of large, top of their field companies that today are only a memory? Oh, yea...it can indeed happen to Disney. The public is quite capable of turning their attention to other things that fill their needs more the others. We have already seen that in their thirst for more thrills, less vintage attractions and more and more imaginative things to see and do. Disney will not keep up by simply adding more meet and greet areas and relying on the Mouses charm to make sure they are always there. Disney will probably always have a certain core of loyal visitors, but will that be enough over time? I wonder! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=761QPX9uUMI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...QPX9uUMI</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NVM9-Jv6F4&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7LQVC7kc8s&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWSRPOrzYk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...SRPOrzYk</a>
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper << So Disney cannot be overtaken, is that the just of what I'm reading? Why do you think that? Have none of you ever heard of General Motors? How about Bell Telephone? How about the hundreds of large, top of their field companies that today are only a memory? Oh, yea...it can indeed happen to Disney. The public is quite capable of turning their attention to other things that fill their needs more the others.>> Sure they can. I don't think they will. As long as Disney keeps their parks in decent shape and doesn't slip any further, I don't see anyway Universal can pass them. Disney is too far engrained in the world psyche as a rite of passage that everyone has to take before they die. I don't think it's a valid way of thinking, but I think it's there. Besides, Universal doesn't have the capacity to overtake Disney. So unless people stop going to Disney in droves and Universal reaches capacity every day of the year, they aren't going to over take the mouse.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It was a great quarter for WDP&R - virtually every metric was up - increased guest attendance, increased occupancy and increased guest spend. The latter was up due to increased ticket prices and higher F&B/merch spend. Although not split out it seems both HKDL and DLRP were up too. Only slight blemish was DCL - but then there was scheduled dry dock and the upcoming launch of the Dream to push costs up. Incredibly the company spent over $1bn on its WDP&R property last quarter alone - that was more than four times the amount in the comparative period. Money is being spent left, right and center.>> I'd just point out that while one billion may sound like a significant amount (and it is), it also is spent among five (soon to be six) resort complexes world-wide, a cruise line in the midst of its largest expansion ever and off-property resorts such as Aulani in Hawaii. And as a recent visitor to WDW, surely you must have noticed how much is going to infrastructure that is literally rotting away (look at MK) due to YEARS of neglect.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Great... profits are up so the creative mediocrity can continue! -- also remember this is YTY-- auto sales were up 27% last year also- but 27% over what- one of the worstyears in the auto industries history... have to be careful with comparative numbers any increase in a crappy year last the last few is good news however
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael So terribly disheartening. Great news for the DoM's with their heads in the sand. Awful news for those hoping for changes.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But the more people realize that there are competitors that match and in some places surpass Disney, the gap will no longer be gigantic like the past." That is, until Disney opens the New Fantasyland, or some other big new thing opens at WDW that tops HP. At some point Harry Potter will be old hat and a competitor, either Disney or some other park, will have the latest and greatest thing on the block.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<That is, until Disney opens the New Fantasyland, or some other big new thing opens at WDW that tops HP. At some point Harry Potter will be old hat and a competitor, either Disney or some other park, will have the latest and greatest thing on the block. >> Surely you realize FLE won't hold a candle to the popularity of HP? Disney does. And again this has NOTHING to do with the latest and the greatest and everything to do with opening people's eyes to the competition. That's what I'm talking about. And that's what's happening now. Besides, by the time FLE opens, so will additions at IoA and possibly the Studios.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The point is that IoA's attendance was in the toilet - so any movement up from the base is going to look very good. Sure they added 2m additional clicks for 2010 (when Potter was only open for little more than half the calendar year) but combined both of those Uni parks are probably getting as many guests as Epcot which runs to c.12m if the estimates are correct (I can't comment). So in short WDW is still the king of the swamps - that isn't going to change any time soon. The trick will be to see if that continues to be the case. Uni would need to continue to add millions of guests every year to begin to be anything more than an annoying gnat bite.>> Perhaps, but WDW is also a product that isn't trying to be anything more than average/Walmart these days. ... And, on those metrics, it is succeeding brilliantly. This is a resort that serves a taco salad minus the salad and has ex-DVC timeshare shills working at City Hall with talking points if you come in and dare question the stupidity of such a thing. UNI/IOA have the most amazing new area and attraction in O-Town by many miles. They don't have to rely on marketing DREAMS, WISHES AND MAGIC ad nasuem and they don't have to give free cruises to insignificant bloggers because legit news media has to be bought off for a whole lot more. UNI can make a profit by serving you a filet for $15.95 for lunch at Mythos, but Disney can't keep the bugs out of the fudge at the Confectionary (really!) WWoHP shows a committment to push the bar higher in themed family entertainment, what does WDW do to compete? That castle show is LAUGHABLE. A pathetic waste of time, money and resources (this was all going into a thread of my own, but it fits here so here it be). Someone told me Disney has been working on it for years ... what a waste. IOA adds live entertainers in Hogsmeade even on slow days, yet Disney sends the Chinese acrobats home, can't keep the bulbs lit on the WS pavilions for RoE, throws out the MSEP in such embarrassing shape (two nights the lead 'new' float wasn't working right, one night they just left it out completely) it looks like a sad relic ... and I never even saw the 'new' parade at the Studios. I really don't understand how anyone working at WDW can be proud of the product being put out now. So, no, I am not impressed by their results. Maybe they'll just add more filler to their burgers, cut the side item in half and raise the price another $1.79 ... oh, and then offer even more free dining dates. Wall Street analysts may get bulges over that, but fans, guests (those with functioning brains and/or standards) and CMs won't.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Surely you realize FLE won't hold a candle to the popularity of HP? Disney does." Of course not, which is why I said "or some other big new thing opens at WDW that tops HP". The point is that neither Harry Potter nor WDW are the last word in theme park development. I think we fans can sometimes behave as though we have more invested in these projects that the company stakeholders do. And so what if someone else does something that tops Disney? Based on the OP it appears that in the case of HP it's actually HELPING to boost attendance at the moment rather than taking away from it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Surely you realize FLE won't hold a candle to the popularity of HP? Disney does. And again this has NOTHING to do with the latest and the greatest and everything to do with opening people's eyes to the competitio -------- absoutely Disney knows that- they also know they still offer far more experience. WWoHP is a very very nice addition--and yes it shows for one hot item they can compete very evenly- even be cutting edge. But I read the same stuff about IOA when it opened- and it never made it. Kong was a great attraction @ the studios- but it never worked... Sea World also did some nice things and they were going to take away the attendance- yet attendance is up 2%. Disney is a cultural icon engrained into the American psyche- granted maybe less so than with my generation, but so none the less. There are still so many things that Disney does so damn well (regardless of some sniping here) - comments like they are now the secondary reason for going to Orlando are really silly. Can it last forever-? Nothing lasts forever but they are going to have to screw it up pretty badly for the roles to change in the theme park world- IMHO. Funny, some people I know who are not Disney fanatics, who have gone to Orlando loved WWoHP--but also asked why everything else there was not as good ? Sounds familiar. WWoHP is a one off attraction as far as built in popularity- globally. We've had this discussion before in that I don't think there is another franchise out there today that would have had the same impact. They landed it- good for them and I'm glad they did it justice. But let's also be real-- they can add another attraction that is truly excellent but it is not going to get the droves of people Potter attracts even if it is very good. Do I want to see Disney compete toe to toe creatively right now- sure- who doesn't...but there is no mantel passing at this point
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper People do not get what I'm saying at all. I'm just going to stop, haha.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "But the more people realize that there are competitors that match and in some places surpass Disney, the gap will no longer be gigantic like the past." <<That is, until Disney opens the New Fantasyland, or some other big new thing opens at WDW that tops HP. At some point Harry Potter will be old hat and a competitor, either Disney or some other park, will have the latest and greatest thing on the block. >> I dunno. UNI (and the parent company) has a new 'tude and it seems to get quality, including in keeping theme parks fresh and relevant. Folks were out last week already getting to work on phase 2 of Potter (which will feature a MAJOR new attraction as well as minor ones). That doesn't include plans for TWO MAJOR attractions at the original UNI Studios park here (or Transformers in Hollywood). New (and I hesitate to use that word as the last time it was used was in DL in 1983-84 when they truly were creating a new land) Fantasyland is not going to be done (just this phase since they absolutely do not want to commit to anything beyond, much like DCA or the Tron attraction) for 2-3 years. And I very much doubt it will drive attendance on its own. What did old man Disney say about quality? It didn't have anything to do with spouting words like DREAMS, WISHES and MAGIC over and over and over again. It didn't have anything to do with selling timeshares. It didn't have anything to do with thinking that buying off social media would somehow make up for a lack of substance.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I'm not sure it's your statements people are taking exception to Hokie..not the crux of my concern. I do understand you really like Uni and would not argue to change what someone likes.. it's all personal choice.. and for one attraction Uni appears to have hit the home run. But that has to be sustained over a long period of time..and has to contain content to allow it to do that. hat is where my issue is--a good ( not great) WWoHP would have been successful IMHO...at least for some period of time. Let's remember they only added one ride there- albeit a cool one. So could it have been better - yes I think so and maybe they'll tear some more down and expand it again. But at least part of this home run is due to unprecedented popularity of the content of the attraction. Hell the exhibit of HP items that made the rounds thru the museums nationwide was sold out here in Chicago for almost the entire run..and half of it was in a damn tent attached to the Science & Industry Museum..but it still drew tons of people to the phenomenon.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "<<While they beat expectations by 54%, year on year profits are flat.>> Huh? Op income wasn't flat - it was up 54%." Mea culpa, the press release I saw was from 2010.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'd just point out that while one billion may sound like a significant amount (and it is), it also is spent among five (soon to be six) resort complexes world-wide, a cruise line in the midst of its largest expansion ever and off-property resorts such as Aulani in Hawaii.>> Let's be clear about this by putting it into context - the $1.088bn: is more than twice the operating income of the segment ($468m); and is a little under the entire cash generated by ALL of the operating divisions that quarter ($1.213bn). Therefore WDP&R spent more money on developing their assets than the entire company generated in cash. Whether you agree with those investment decisions is an entirely different matter. <<And as a recent visitor to WDW, surely you must have noticed how much is going to infrastructure that is literally rotting away (look at MK) due to YEARS of neglect.>> I didn't and don't see rotting infrastructure - that is pure hyperbole. I see a gigantic operation that is shifting more and more to becoming a value commodity. It is virtually impossible to offer a truly premium experience across the entire resort - and only WDW Co. PR would suggest otherwise. Do I have an issue that smaller players like Uni are creating some great attractions? No. Capex is being diverted elsewhere for now - the company has great faith in the plans set in motion by Jay (for better or for worse) - the key will be what happens next.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Surely you realize FLE won't hold a candle to the popularity of HP? Disney does.>> FLE will do exactly what it sets out to do namely: 1) Increase capacity at a park that is woefully overcapacity; and 2) Appeal to the key demographic - families with young kids. That is exactly what draws the majority (but not vast majority) of the MK's 18m guests.
Originally Posted By leemac <<That castle show is LAUGHABLE. >> Couldn't agree more - it was horrific. A car wreck of maudlin nonsense.
