Originally Posted By leemac <<UNI (and the parent company) has a new 'tude and it seems to get quality, including in keeping theme parks fresh and relevant.>> I'd back-track on that. We don't know what Comcast want to do with the parks. Even Steve Burke (a former Disney executive who ran DLRP for a while) doesn't feel they are a good fit. NBC-Uni and Blackstone have been getting ready to offload Uni Orlando for years - the credit crisis put the kibosh on that but I'm sure they will find a buyer in the next few years. Uni is still a mixed bag when you consider other recent additions like Kong.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Folks were out last week already getting to work on phase 2 of Potter (which will feature a MAJOR new attraction as well as minor ones). >> Don't know where that one has come from - someone who is very close to Potterland told me that negotiations are ongoing and that there is no provision to expand without approval which WB and Rowling haven't granted....yet.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>So terribly disheartening. Great news for the DoM's with their heads in the sand. Awful news for those hoping for changes.<<< We need Iger gone. Few more years... ...and then we get Staggs. Fantastic. (I have hope...)
Originally Posted By leobloom <<That castle show is LAUGHABLE. >> >> Couldn't agree more - it was horrific. A car wreck of maudlin nonsense. << Too funny. There was another discussion board raving about it. Somehow I don't see myself racing to MK to watch it.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <<That castle show is LAUGHABLE. >> I'm trying to be positive about it, but I really don't care for the WDW version at all. The Small World version at DL looks a lot better. Both would be better without the cheesy guest photos.
Originally Posted By Manfried I like the show. I think it is fine. It is not meant to be a major attraction.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer I have heard nothing but good things about the show... The projections look very impressive. Was looking forward to seeing it in June, and I still am.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And as a recent visitor to WDW, surely you must have noticed how much is going to infrastructure that is literally rotting away (look at MK) due to YEARS of neglect.>> <<I didn't and don't see rotting infrastructure - that is pure hyperbole.>> No, it isn't. I'd love to take you on a tour of the MK with eyes open. Much of the 'work' on Main Street is due to wood rot. The Adventureland Bridge is being replaced because it is in such lousy shape. Railings on the A-land Veranda were replaced after some spirits noticed that they were rotted thru and anyone who leaned up against them, and weighed what a typical WDW guest does, might send them into the shallow moat below resulting in severe injury or death. Shops on Main Street (especially Confectionary) have MAJOR issues with water leakage and sanitation. Want to move beyond MK (although there are plenty more examples I could give)? Do you know anyone associated with Disney Sports who will give you an honest answer to a question? Ask why Disney had to do emergency repaving around EPCOT because the surface wasn't safe/acceptable to hold a marathon on. For that matter, take a look at almost any parking lot, access road on property (beyond main ones such as World Drive etc) and see how they haven't been touched in many years. Or just look at how Disney maintains its resorts. I love the WL, but take a look at the beautiful (well, they once were) wood floors. How the sealing agent was removed from the floor. How the wood is buckling because they outsource the cleaning crew, so I got to watch first hand at 11:30 p.m. as some dude was cleaning wood floors with a mop and water/cleanser like you'd clean a tile floor at McD's at closing. Even in cases where they recently installed new furniture and/or carpeting (I saw that at GF and BC to name two), there were already issues (yes, the fact guests are pigs can be an issue -- but Disney needs to crack down on boorish behavior too.) it was already showing signs of wear and tear and not regular cleaning. As an aside, Disney hates to actually clean carpeting. I recently stayed at a Marriott resort in North Florida that is in foreclosure and was at about 35% occupancy when I was there. They were still steam cleaning the carpeting in the lobby daily and refreshing planters due to the cold (and with real flowers, not mulch/wood chips from Home Depot). That IS how you operate top resorts. Did you take a monorail ride when in FLA? Are you going to tell me they clean them regularly (won't even go into safety issues)? I wish and dream that it was simply (black) MAGIC causing me to hyperbolize about the state of WDW. But it isn't. It's reality. <<I see a gigantic operation that is shifting more and more to becoming a value commodity. It is virtually impossible to offer a truly premium experience across the entire resort - and only WDW Co. PR would suggest otherwise.>> Perhaps. WDW is too big for its own good, yet Disney's answer is always more hotel rooms and timeshares and buses. But WDW isn't a premium product and you won't convince me that Disney wants to be one or believes it is one (what lies PR puts out isn't pertinent here). Do you see how WDW 'suits' dress these days? There was a time when management would be out in the parks in suits and ties (even if it was 90 degrees) and they carried a professional demeanor. Now, take a look. You have slovenly managers wearing Walmart attire (maybe J.C. Penny's on a good day) playing on smart phones. It makes for a ghetto look. Not a MAGICal one. WDW isn't a premium product (with some exceptions) at all. It's a very average one, even compared with all the other Disney resorts or DCL. This isn't a new development. This has been a steady and planned progression going back 10-15 years now. Standing on a filthy Main Street Saturday night (apparently they have decided on a 10 p.m. close with 7 p.m. MSEP, 7:45 p.m. castle PR show and 8 p.m. Wishes that they won't begin cleaning the park until closing), I was just trying to figure out how fanbois walk around with trash everywhere and not a single custodial CM in sight (first time I've ever seen that) and not notice. <<Do I have an issue that smaller players like Uni are creating some great attractions? No. Capex is being diverted elsewhere for now - the company has great faith in the plans set in motion by Jay (for better or for worse) - the key will be what happens next.>> I have no faith in the leadership at all when it comes to Bob or Jay ... I think Tom may well care about the product in P&R, but I'm not sure what that means or what difference it may make. I do know WWoHP wowed me in a way Disney hasn't at any existing WDW park since Sunset Blvd and ToT opened in 1994 at TPFKaTD-MGMS.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That castle show is LAUGHABLE. >> <<Couldn't agree more - it was horrific. A car wreck of maudlin nonsense. >> The best comment came from a 5 or 6-year-old girl on her mom's shoulders when she said about two minutes in 'Mommy, why can't they just show the fireworks?' My reaction was just a WTF moment. The effects are kewl to a point ... but the music is lame ... and the images on all the photos were very blurry. And again, I don't know about most guests, but I don't visit Disney theme parks to see pictures of other guests projected onto the castle. If Disney/Iger believes that people need to be involved in every aspect of the day (from interactive queues to character greetings to video games) then I think the company really is headed toward a scary point.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<UNI (and the parent company) has a new 'tude and it seems to get quality, including in keeping theme parks fresh and relevant.>> <<I'd back-track on that. We don't know what Comcast want to do with the parks. Even Steve Burke (a former Disney executive who ran DLRP for a while) doesn't feel they are a good fit.>> I've heard the exact opposite, Lee. And I trust where I am getting the info from. Burke is a smart guy and one who learned plenty about the P&R business when he was with TWDC. <<NBC-Uni and Blackstone have been getting ready to offload Uni Orlando for years - the credit crisis put the kibosh on that but I'm sure they will find a buyer in the next few years.>> We'll let time judge. But I don't think that will happen. What Blackstone wanted and what Comcast wants are two different things. <<Uni is still a mixed bag when you consider other recent additions like Kong.>> Haven't had a chance to see it yet. Have you? I have heard mixed things, but I don't think they were shooting for something huge there. I am not saying UNI is ahead of Disney. They are not. And not even close when you take in what Disney does worldwide. But when you want the freshest highest quality themed family entertainment product in O-Town, right now it is at IOA. And I don't care how nice an Omnimover Mermaid will be, but it won't be pushing the bar higher. That's what bothers me most. Disney doesn't even try. Can you imagine with today's ride systems and technologies what you could do with a Peter Pan Flight type of attraction? Or a 101 Dalmatians deal where you are trying to escape Cruella's clutches? Or a true magic carpet ride with Aladdin and Jasmine? Just look at what WDI did with freaking Pooh in Tokyo over a decade ago now. It's all about Walmarting ... doing as little as possible.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Don't know where that one has come from - someone who is very close to Potterland told me that negotiations are ongoing and that there is no provision to expand without approval which WB and Rowling haven't granted....yet.>> Yet. One key word. The plans are drawn up. Things may well change, but something will be done. Something BIG. After all, Disney and China haven't announced Shanghai YET either, right?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I have heard nothing but good things about the show... The projections look very impressive. Was looking forward to seeing it in June, and I still am.>> The show is total pooh. Some projections aside (and they do much better regularly in other Disney resorts anyway), the show is complete trash. It is amateurish in nature, unfitting of any park with the Disney name on it. It almost is like they sat back and said 'hey, instead of actually adding something entertaining how about we put pics of guests on the castle? they'll love that and we don't have to actually do much of anything.' BAD. NO ... AWFUL.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "It's all about Walmarting ... doing as little as possible." And isn't that precisely what Universal has been doing for decades with a few notable exceptions? I still don't see why people are making such a huge distinction between the two enterprises, when in fact at the moment neither seems to be raising the bar overall. Great expense was spent on Potterland because the franchise warranted it, not because Uni was in generous mood and felt like making its fans happy.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper ^^^I really don't agree. I'd trade every addition in the past 10 years at Disney for Spider-man, Pop-eye, JPRA, FJ, ROTM, and MIB.
Originally Posted By CaptainMichael You know what? I'm done with letting this news get me down. WWoHP Phase 2 cures all ills.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I have heard nothing but good things about the show...>> I really can't fathom how anyone would like it - it is a real head-scratcher for me. The projection technology is great but the "story-telling" here is awful - truly awful. I guess folks are easily pleased. I expected a whole lot more - particularly with the music which I found to be instantly forgettable.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'd love to take you on a tour of the MK with eyes open. Much of the 'work' on Main Street is due to wood rot. The Adventureland Bridge is being replaced because it is in such lousy shape. >> I'm not an engineer - I'm interested in the show - and I was surprised at how good the show looked at all four parks recently. Central Florida is a hideous climate to work in - the humidity, heat and intense sunrays cause major problems - particularly for wood (and I thought most of MSUSA used the vinyl composite these days like HKDL but I'm no construction expert). The AdvL bridge is planned replacement - it isn't emergency replacement. Perhaps I give WDW a (slight) pass on these matters as I'm still amazed at how they keep the place operating to any level at all. Walt may have thought that size was a virtue but it isn't when you've developed so much.
Originally Posted By leemac <<We'll let time judge. But I don't think that will happen. What Blackstone wanted and what Comcast wants are two different things.>> Always the case when you deal with the devil, er, private equity. Blackstone will want out soon - long term investment isn't their game. Comcast will have right to first refusal but I'd wager they won't take it up. I'd put good money on the whole of Uni Orlando (and possibly the whole of Uni Parks & Resorts) being either IPO'ed (unlikely in this climate) or sold to another p/e player in the next few years. What they are currently doing is dressing up the pig.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Walt may have thought that size was a virtue but it isn't when you've developed so much*** Well, without trying to psychoanalyze the deceased, I don't think the size that we see today is exactly what Mr. Disney had in mind. I doubt he intended to be a full time hotelier, for one thing. But beyond the theme parks and a couple of other special locations, maintaining a gigantic hotel business is pretty much what we're talking about, right? I think he meant size moreso as far as keeping outside intrusions away (which WAS very true in Orlando for a while, but when the inside intrusions start to mirror the outside ones (big huge McDonalds, anyone? Gigantic and gaudy Sheraton brand Hotel?), that doesn't matter so much anymore. Still, better than Kissimmee (faint praise lol), but it seems they've figured out a good way to handle the issue in Anaheim and Hong Kong is GREAT as far as that matter is concerned so it doesn't seem like they need *that* much size after all...just quality of direction. The other thing would be the size to build whatever you want. Since Epcot, the company has been more reactionary than visionary, growing even worse lately (at least Eisner had SOME visionary aspects, all other faults aside). So, they've not built much to impress but they've built a LOT of junk they need to maintain OR, let fall into ruin Pleasure Island style. Yikes. And, beyond all that, Walt Disney intended to build an actual CITY with all that land, and not just a ridiculously sprawled out vacation resort that requires fleets of busses and hordes of low paid worker drones in order to move tourists around from park to park to park, and back again to their hotel for the night.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>The show is total pooh. Some projections aside (and they do much better regularly in other Disney resorts anyway), the show is complete trash. It is amateurish in nature, unfitting of any park with the Disney name on it.<<< Well, no we will have something on a regular basis too. It's PR, yes, but it's not replacing anything, nor is it supposed to be a main draw. It's synergy for their marketing. That's looking at it without the content. Now, if the content is actually THAT bad, then, yes, there's a issue.
