Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "DQ doesn't do a great deal for me (haven't been in years despite it being included in my PAP and 4-5 visits to WDW a year). I just find it odd to be indoors all the time with no natural light at all." I've always felt that was a major design flaw. The only times I used to go were rainy afternoons or nights when there were no parks open, and I'm a local. Why would people who come to Central Florida for the sun want to stay in a block building that feels more claustrophobic that an old Vegas casino?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>DQ was a wonderful concept with no follow-thru at all. It died as a concept not because it wasn't profitable, but died because it wasn't profitable 'enough.'<< Ah yes, ROI. And chances are the ROI on the ESPN Zone will be much higher.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Ah yes, ROI. And chances are the ROI on the ESPN Zone will be much higher.>> This is where I find the Hill story fishy. Two things: 1) It isn't a question of whether it is "profitable enough". If it is profitable then it stays. That is the WDW model. They don't have a land capacity issue. If DQ was profitable and they wanted an ESPN Zone they would just build one. ROI is not relevant as the investment cost has passed. It is only relevant if WDW (and DRE) feel they have to go into R&D to keep it afloat. 2) I'd put good money on the conversion costs to an ESPN Zone being higher than building a new one from stratch. DQ is also nearly 3 times the square footage of the largest ESPN Zone. It just doesn't add up. Plans to expand West Side have been batted around for years (including an ESPN Zone) and there is plenty of room behind Cirque's theater to take it to Saratoga Springs. In short it doesn't make fiscal sense. There is no doubt in my mind that WDI's bloated budgets killed DQ. The projects would never have been cost-effective no matter the size IMO. DRE had the capability to be a significant player in WDP&R through Club Disney, Mickey's Kitchen (which would have passed to DRE rather than TDS Retail) DQ and ESPN Zone but they blew it. Jay really had a vision of Disney "parks" in every city when he ran DRE and I find it intriguing that he is now pushing that agenda at WDP&R. If Singapore, Seoul and Shanghai all come off the drawing boards (and one is almost certain to be signed this year) it will be a huge expansion, the likes of which WDP&R and WDI have never seen. Especially as those projects aren't MKs. One point to note is that WDI had to buy the Buzz figure from DRE for Hong Kong Disneyland's Astro Blasters. It wasn't a freebie (but meant they could do it with the budget they had).
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "This is where I find the Hill story fishy. Two things: 1) It isn't a question of whether it is "profitable enough". If it is profitable then it stays. That is the WDW model." Only true to a point. Every location has numbers they have to meet. If Location X makes $5 million in profit, but is budgeted to make $8 million, it is not considered a success. The WDW business model is crazy, and also IMHO a major reason why the product has been cheapened so much -- everything comes down to numbers and the people crunching them don't have the real-world theme park experience to understand what those numbers actually mean. "They don't have a land capacity issue. If DQ was profitable and they wanted an ESPN Zone they would just build one. ROI is not relevant as the investment cost has passed. It is only relevant if WDW (and DRE) feel they have to go into R&D to keep it afloat." I think -- don't know, but feel pretty safe on this limb -- that DQ may well be profitable, but isn't pulling in the numbers it once did and would need substantial investment to do so. Since DRE really doesn't exist right now except for the ESPN Zones (and whatever projects they may be considering in Asia), it doesn't make sense to pump investment dollars into one location. "2) I'd put good money on the conversion costs to an ESPN Zone being higher than building a new one from stratch. DQ is also nearly 3 times the square footage of the largest ESPN Zone. It just doesn't add up." You're right about the conversion cost. But since when did Disney exec decisions have to add up? FWIW, ESPN Zones are very popular and often have huge waits to get in, so I'm not surprised they want a larger footprint. I'm also going to wager they want to have a significantly larger retail aspect to this location. "Plans to expand West Side have been batted around for years (including an ESPN Zone) and there is plenty of room behind Cirque's theater to take it to Saratoga Springs." They'd be better served doing what they are attempting at PI, and shoring up a week lineup before they go expanding again. "In short it doesn't make fiscal sense." That's our Disney! "There is no doubt in my mind that WDI's bloated budgets killed DQ. The projects would never have been cost-effective no matter the size IMO. DRE had the capability to be a significant player in WDP&R through Club Disney, Mickey's Kitchen (which would have passed to DRE rather than TDS Retail) DQ and ESPN Zone but they blew it." Some of us think some of those concepts werelousy ideas and businesses Disney had no need to enter. That was Eisner's last decade. Just spread TWDC so thin and lose focus on things like animation and keeping parks fresh, clean and relevant instead of trying to reinvent the company. "Jay really had a vision of Disney "parks" in every city when he ran DRE and I find it intriguing that he is now pushing that agenda at WDP&R. If Singapore, Seoul and Shanghai all come off the drawing boards (and one is almost certain to be signed this year) it will be a huge expansion, the likes of which WDP&R and WDI have never seen. Especially as those projects aren't MKs." I'm not sure I like where Jay may be going. McDisney's aren't a good idea. "One point to note is that WDI had to buy the Buzz figure from DRE for Hong Kong Disneyland's Astro Blasters. It wasn't a freebie (but meant they could do it with the budget they had)." Interesting.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'd hate to see the ESPN Club leave the Boardwalk. It was always one of our favorites... a great late night place to go for a plate of Nachos and a few Margaritas. We never went to Disney Quest, so I can't say that I will miss it. They should have included one DQ visit at no extra charge on every 4 or 5 day Hopper. If more people had tried it, more might have liked it. Personally, I wasn't going to spend what they were asking for admission to an entertainment concept that I knew NOTHING about.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Interesting to note that Gameworks -- another one of these video-game-on-steriods places, has several locations around the country -- seems to be doing okay. <a href="http://www.gameworks.com/locations.php" target="_blank">http://www.gameworks.com/locat ions.php</a>
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA ^^^Sorry. I meant to write, 'Jim, I was looking at the Gameworks website, Jim, and noticed that they have several locations around the country, Jim.'
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I also wanted to add that some of these concepts just don't work. I visited two Club Disney locations, and thought they were a real bust. Poorly thought out, poorly executed. It was no surprise to me that they closed. As for Disney Quest. It seemed like a cool thing on paper -- but it just didn't work. For Disney. ...Jim
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>As for Disney Quest. It seemed like a cool thing on paper -- but it just didn't work. For Disney.<< That reminds me of Club Disney (or whatever it was called). They had one in one of the major malls in Denver. It was gone after a couple of years.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I meant to write, 'Jim, I was looking at the Gameworks website, Jim, and noticed that they have several locations around the country, Jim.'" Jim, thanks for the information. You know, Jim, there are many places like Gameworks and Dave and Busters around the country. They all seem to be doing gangbusters, Jim, so you have to wonder if there was something Disney was missing at DQ. Anywho, Jim, if you want to enjoy CyberSpaceMountain or PoTC:Battle for Buccaneers Gold, you might want to head over to DD's Westside prior to January 2008, Jim.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney "I also wanted to add that some of these concepts just don't work. I visited two Club Disney locations, and thought they were a real bust. Poorly thought out, poorly executed. It was no surprise to me that they closed." I visited one. I think it was in West Covina. To me it was as if Disney became Chuck E. Cheese's, just without the quality. Club Disney was designed to steal the audience away from the Dscovery Zone chain (remember them? I think Blockbuster Video was behind them.) that exploded on the scene in the 1990s, grew to a few hundred locations and doesn't exist anymore.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ That brings back memories. The West Covina one was a disaster. Poorly located and very expensive for the neighborhood. If my memory serves me right there was also Thousand (or Sherman) Oaks, Phoenix and Denver. Worst thing was that DRE had entered into lease arrangements on other sites that they needed to pay off. Just given too much of a free rein. Judson really just left them to do their own thing which was the wrong business plan. Typically Disney but wrong. For whatever ills people saw in Paul Pressler at least the guy was fiscally responsible. And that has transcended into the Jay era too.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Thousand Oaks is correct, leemac [it's me hometown, so that's why I remember] and was in a more expensive area of town -- closer to tony Westlake Village. But, once in the door at Club Disney, there was no 'there' there. ...Jim
Originally Posted By mrichmondj These concepts generally don't work in the marketplace. Chuck E. Cheese is probably the longest running of these operations, and it has been in and out of bankruptcy several times over the years. Dave & Buster's, noted in many post above as a successful operation, posted operating losses for many years before being bought out by a private investment group. The company has stopped expanding into new markets, and still loses money in more quarters of the year than it makes money. Discovery Zone, another location based concept for kids, went defunct years ago. You can add Club Disney to the list of location based entertainment centers that are now history. Sega's Gameworks is a break even venture for that company, but doesn't make any real profits. It was initially bankrolled in a joint venture with Dreamworks, but now that Dreamworks is no more there isn't as much interest in making it much more than an upscale video arcade. Bottom line is that there has never been a successful business model in these operations, DisneyQuest is just the latest in a long line of casualties.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I'd hate to see the ESPN Club leave the Boardwalk. It was always one of our favorites... a great late night place to go for a plate of Nachos and a few Margaritas< I agree with you here --- we never 'plan' to eat there but one more than one occasion have ended up there and had a very enjoyable time..seems like you can almost always get seated in a reasonable amount of time and the place is fun. If they decided to build an ESPN Sports Zone DTD, they should leave this location as they really are separate experiences. In the same massive building that housed D Quest in Chicago they also had ( and still have ) an ESPN Zone....also had a themed restaurant called Jekyll & Hyde -- all horror movie ( think Universal horror movies here) themed with great food, but when DQ shut down - there went a lot of their biz -- and closed -- they had 'live' shows every 15 minutes including the raising of the platform with Frankenstein on it to the rafters and all the bells and whitles and lightning and brought the monster to life -- it was a cool place
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I went to Disney Quest once. On a day when it was raining. I found the layout confusing and like a maze. I could see how a family could easily loose a child in there. I think my issue with DQ is that I am not at WDW to play video games. I can do that at home or online. When I am at WDW I want to be outside. And at night there are a lot of things to do on property that are far more intresting that DQ. There is Fantasmic, Illuminations also the Parade and Fireworks at the MK. I think DQ is decreasing number is a causuality of its one creation. Disney has created plenty of intresting family oriented activities to do in the early evening. As far as later in the evening, after a day of walking for miles and being bombarded by blaring TV monitiors and speakers, who wants to go into a crowded space packed with people with your senses overwhelmed to the point of epliptic seizure. In the evening I enjoy walking around the grounds of whatever resort I may be staying at. Thats my quiet time.
Originally Posted By crazyformickey in 2001 we bought an unlimited pass which gave us free access to DQ. That year was the first and only time we went. Last year we talked about going again but the $35 pp was too much for what you get. For me it's a been there done that not sure if I want to do it again.
Originally Posted By Black Pearl This original post is not convincing. Why not close it in 2007? Why not close it in 2009? What is significant about 2008? I think the insignificance for the date of close makes the whole comment unreliable or at least incredible.
