Originally Posted By trekkeruss Unless you want to talk about how Disney should/could pay for a higher standard of maintenance and operations of their parks.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My point is, everyone has "good ol' days syndrome" to one degree or another. < and that's wrong ? So we are just supposed to accept a decline in anything and write it off to the ' well these are modern times syndrome " ?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Tonight I went to the grocery store. Just a few items in a smaller neighborhood store. When I got to the register the gal working there first looked at the stuff I was buying, not at me. I was thankful that she stopped talking on her cellphone while she rang up my purchase. But she never did put the phone down. Or say "Sorry -- I'll be right with you." This hardly ever happens at Disney.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<<My point is, everyone has "good ol' days syndrome" to one degree or another. < and that's wrong ? So we are just supposed to accept a decline in anything and write it off to the ' well these are modern times syndrome " ?>> I was saying that things aren't necessarily as good as one remembers them... just as they aren't as bad as people say they are now. Like opinions, perceptions aren't always right (or wrong.)
Originally Posted By vbdad55 memory can be selective -- but so can acceptance of things being worse- just because.....
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney ^^I HATE the argument that perceptions can be wrong ... that anyone who remembers what WDW offered in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s is somehow viewing things thru a rose-colored prism. That's B.S. plain and simple. I live in the area and have spent countless days over the past three decades-plus at WDW's parks, resorts, restaurants and shops. I have many close friends who either work (or worked) at WDW. I know, for example, that almost every bathroom I visited Sunday night at the MK was FILTHY. I also know people would have lost jobs over that as recently as a decade ago. Having toilets not working, paper all over the floor, a flood on the counter, no paper in the dispensers etc ... just wouldn't have been tolerated. Fact, not opinion. The conditions of the walkways, landscaping (all over WDW this is a major issue as someone in authority seems to think wood chips and rocks count as beautification) or lack thereof, effects on attractions are all in states that simply would never have happened. All the ''time has clouded your perceptions" nonsense is just that. And then we have just poor CMs. Forget the slovenly, dirty look that would have Walt spinning in his grave because, unfortunately, that is a reflection on folks in our country today, especially the poor. And the little Disney details, they just disappear more every day. The one thing I really noticed this weekend was the state of window displays on Main Street. How boring they were. How unorginal. How they completely lack the Disney touch they once did. How the Emporium windows haven't been updated in years. Does anyone know why? I do. Disney used to have CMs whose only job was window displays. They were artisans. Now, you may as well be at WalMart because the same folks who stack the tee shirts, or let them sit on the floor, are the ones working on the windows. Just a small example that many people don't realize. Same thing when you see walkways that are dirty, sticky and stained. They used to pressure-clean them every night until sometime in the mid-90s when they cut it down to 1-2 days a week. I'm convinced they don't clean them at all anymore. Ultimately, it's horrible management. Folks like VPs Phil Holmes and Lee Cockerell need to be shown the door. Disney likes to tout the MK as its most visited park, but they sure don't like to put any of that money back in to it. And unlike a park like DAK, where you have a very strong designer like Joe Rohde pushing for quality, there's no one doing likewise for the MK. I just realized this weekend why I spend most of my WDW park time at Epcot and DAK, and that's because there's still an attempt to deliver a Disney caliber experience. I honestly feel that at Disney's other two Orlando parks, the leaders couldn't care less ...and it shows.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I HATE the argument that perceptions can be wrong ... that anyone who remembers what WDW offered in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s is somehow viewing things thru a rose-colored prism. That's B.S. plain and simple.>> If it makes you feel better, I didn't put an absolute on my statement. I said "to one degree or another." I don't think it's B.S "plain and simple." I think everyone has fond memories of days gone by. As someone here once said, there are plenty of bad stuff that happened too that we forget about (such as discrimination, for instance.) <<The conditions of the walkways, landscaping (all over WDW this is a major issue as someone in authority seems to think wood chips and rocks count as beautification) or lack thereof, effects on attractions are all in states that simply would never have happened. All the ''time has clouded your perceptions" nonsense is just that.>> As I said in a previous post, all these things are considered bad show, and I don't excuse them just like that. But also realize the the MK is almost 35 years old. As much attention they put into it, there is still going to be a lot more things to fix than was needed 10 or 20 years ago. <<And then we have just poor CMs. Forget the slovenly, dirty look that would have Walt spinning in his grave because, unfortunately, that is a reflection on folks in our country today, especially the poor.>> So just how is Disney supposed to address this problem, if you say it's the norm now? <<They used to pressure-clean them every night until sometime in the mid-90s when they cut it down to 1-2 days a week.>> Saves money, but also conserves water. So it's a bad and good move, depending on how you look at it. <<unlike a park like DAK, where you have a very strong designer like Joe Rohde pushing for quality, there's no one doing likewise for the MK.>> I am unsure of what you are saying here, as I don't believe that Imagineers have anything to do with the daily operations of parks. Correct me if I am wrong. <<I just realized this weekend why I spend most of my WDW park time at Epcot and DAK, and that's because there's still an attempt to deliver a Disney caliber experience.>> Maybe it's coincidence, but those two parks have also gotten the most love in the last few years. DAK is getting a MAJOR e-ticket in EE, and EPCOT has gotten both Soarin' and M:S. The other two however, have situations that compound their problems. The MK not only has lost more than it has gained, it is still busier than all the other parks, making it more of a challenge to keep clean. The Studios has lost it's focus almost completely, and is considered by many to be in the worst shape thematically of all the American parks. <<I honestly feel that at Disney's other two Orlando parks, the leaders couldn't care less ...and it shows.>> While I can see how the custodial and maintenance aspects of those two parks would be the responsibility of the managers of those individual parks, the overall direction must lie with managers further up in the company, yes?
Originally Posted By LOUDROCK AS A FREQUENT TRAVELER TO THE ORIENT I KNOW WHAT GOOD SERVICE AND CLEANLINESS IS AND DISNEY WORLD NEEDS TO CLEAN AND MAINTAIN THEIR PARKS AND PARENTS NEED TO TEACH THEIR CHILDREN THAT DEFACING AND LITTERING HURTS ALL OF US. WE CAN LEARN FROM THE ORIENTALS.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Please do not type with your caps lock on, as it is considered rude... a form of yelling, not to mention difficult on the eyes. Thank you.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < As someone here once said, there are plenty of bad stuff that happened too that we forget about (such as discrimination, for instance.) < Maybe not dwell on the bad things, but people don;t forget -- and you speak of this as if it's gone now ?? <<<<And then we have just poor CMs. Forget the slovenly, dirty look that would have Walt spinning in his grave because, unfortunately, that is a reflection on folks in our country today, especially the poor.>> So just how is Disney supposed to address this problem, if you say it's the norm now? <<< " I believe this may be one of the tallest hurdles to try and get over for Disney -- just because of the fact that they need 50,000 + CM's in Orlando -- vs a much smaller amount in Anaheim or anywhere else....in today's world of the service industry I don;t believe it is possible for them to find that many dedicated workers - regardless of the pay....
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Maybe not dwell on the bad things, but people don;t forget -- and you speak of this as if it's gone now ??>> Just using discrmination as an example... it's one thing that happened to pop into my head; not saying it is gone by any means. But it's less prevelant than in the 50's or 60's... DL probably wasn't exactly a model of diversity. <<I believe this may be one of the tallest hurdles to try and get over for Disney -- just because of the fact that they need 50,000 + CM's in Orlando>> One of the arguments used for not expanding the resort any more... and that it is too big already. I can see that, and I would be against a fifth park.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Saves money, but also conserves water. So it's a bad and good move, depending on how you look at it.<< I don't see how this could be an issue in Florida. DLR, maybe.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA >>Saves money, but also conserves water. So it's a bad and good move, depending on how you look at it.<< Having fewer custodial cast members sweeping the grounds also saves money -- on staffing, paper towels, bottles of 409 cleaner, and those pan and broom combinations. But you can save money right into the toilet.com
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But you can save money right into the toilet.com< it's the be all and end all for most American corps right now -- instead of increasing revenues - or being happy with a few $B profit -- the answer is to cut out everything until the company is no longer a quality place to either work for or do business with.
Originally Posted By trailsend <<<<Hey Tom are you from Kennesaw Georgia? I lived in Kennesaw for 6 years and still live close by. Just curious. >>>> DVC_dad ~ I'm in Kennesaw! KT and I live very close to each other.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<PS: The other members of my party think that the cast member in the General Store gave me poor service because of my fu manchu moustache.>> I think that may well be correct. It is unfortunate and people should not be judged like that. But I'm sure the combination of a Room Charge secured by an American Express combined with a fu manchu moustache set off every security alert they had! I’ve found that I receive much better service at WDW if I dress slightly better than the average guest. Nothing huge, but I always wear a collared shirt to the parks rather than a T-shirt or (GAK!) a tank top. I also always wear long pants (nice jeans or khakis) rather than shorts to table service restaurants. It is too bad that stuff like that makes a difference. But it does.
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Originally Posted By jkayjs I wasn't going to get into this discussion but after post #25&34 I had to. OTown is that you? Whether it is or not I feel compelled to point out something. Orientals are rugs. Asians are an ethnic group that deserves respect even if you are just trying to get everyone riled up. If this is OTown I know that everyone cuts you a lot of slack but this crosses the line. If you aren't OTown it still crosses the line. The thing that makes these boards what they are is the amazing tolerance shown by most to everyone that posts. That being said the point is not lost on me about cleanliness at say TDR. Anyway everyone have a good night it's bed for me, early morning.
Originally Posted By LuvDatDisney <<I HATE the argument that perceptions can be wrong ... that anyone who remembers what WDW offered in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s is somehow viewing things thru a rose-colored prism. That's B.S. plain and simple.>> "If it makes you feel better, I didn't put an absolute on my statement. I said "to one degree or another." I don't think it's B.S "plain and simple." I think everyone has fond memories of days gone by. As someone here once said, there are plenty of bad stuff that happened too that we forget about (such as discrimination, for instance.)" sure, there were bad things in the past, but I'm not talking about society in general. I'm speaking of the WDW experience. It has become so watered down. Less used to be more (magic). More (resorts, parks, options) equals less now because you don't get the Disney service you once did. That's why this whole topic got me ticked. ... Because Disney service has me spoiled and now they offer a lot less and it angers me. <<The conditions of the walkways, landscaping (all over WDW this is a major issue as someone in authority seems to think wood chips and rocks count as beautification) or lack thereof, effects on attractions are all in states that simply would never have happened. All the ''time has clouded your perceptions" nonsense is just that.>> "As I said in a previous post, all these things are considered bad show, and I don't excuse them just like that. But also realize the the MK is almost 35 years old. As much attention they put into it, there is still going to be a lot more things to fix than was needed 10 or 20 years ago." Take a visit to TDL, which is about to turn 23, if you believe this. It all comes down to preventative maintaince and fixing things before they hurt show quality. Go ride any E-Ticket at the MK, with the exception of Small World, and tell me if you think that's what's being done. <<And then we have just poor CMs. Forget the slovenly, dirty look that would have Walt spinning in his grave because, unfortunately, that is a reflection on folks in our country today, especially the poor.>> "So just how is Disney supposed to address this problem, if you say it's the norm now?" well, they could encourgage healthy lifestyle/eating habits. Or simply go back to the 70s and 80s and put all obese workers in backstage positions ... nah, that would be discrminiation, not to mention take 3/4ers of the workforce away! <<They used to pressure-clean them every night until sometime in the mid-90s when they cut it down to 1-2 days a week.>> "Saves money, but also conserves water. So it's a bad and good move, depending on how you look at it." I look at that as company spin. It's the same reason why WDW shut off many fountains in the mid-90s during Central Florida drought and never turned them on again to save money and appear to care about water-use. Gotta love how those beautiful fountains got stuffed with potted plants and refuse. <<unlike a park like DAK, where you have a very strong designer like Joe Rohde pushing for quality, there's no one doing likewise for the MK.>> "I am unsure of what you are saying here, as I don't believe that Imagineers have anything to do with the daily operations of parks. Correct me if I am wrong." True to a large extent. What I was speaking to was having one creative leader with a focus. DAK has that. The MK doesn't. <<I just realized this weekend why I spend most of my WDW park time at Epcot and DAK, and that's because there's still an attempt to deliver a Disney caliber experience.>> "Maybe it's coincidence, but those two parks have also gotten the most love in the last few years. DAK is getting a MAJOR e-ticket in EE, and EPCOT has gotten both Soarin' and M:S. The other two however, have situations that compound their problems. The MK not only has lost more than it has gained, it is still busier than all the other parks, making it more of a challenge to keep clean. The Studios has lost it's focus almost completely, and is considered by many to be in the worst shape thematically of all the American parks." Makes sense. <<I honestly feel that at Disney's other two Orlando parks, the leaders couldn't care less ...and it shows.>> "While I can see how the custodial and maintenance aspects of those two parks would be the responsibility of the managers of those individual parks, the overall direction must lie with managers further up in the company, yes?" Partly, but you can see at DL what a strong leader can do. Compare that with Florida's VPs. Of course, it all starts with Al Weiss, whose career as WDW Prez has all been about maximizing profit at all costs.
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