Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>....Alfredos that was Epcot's highest grossing location for years.<< We ate at Alfredo's several times and always loved it. Why did they end their operation if it was so popular? It sounds like they did good enough business to get by, so I doubt they were losing money or anything I've been to Tutto Italia since it replaced Alfredo's and it's okay, but it's nothing you can't find in any suburban Italian restaurant anywhere in the US >>Morocco is an outside vendor but I can't remember about China and Norway.<< I would imagine that Norway at least is a Disney operation. I can't imagine an outsider would be overly excited about their restaurant getting turned into a princess meal. If it was ever operated by someone else, I would bet that ended around the time that NorShow backed out of the rest of the pavilion
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>I've been to Tutto Italia since it replaced Alfredo's and it's okay, but it's nothing you can't find in any suburban Italian restaurant anywhere in the US<<< We have eaten at the Italian Pavilion twice. Once at Tutto Italia and once at Via Napoli. Both restaurants were okay, but nothing special, at least for vegetarians.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ NorShow controlled the whole pavilion until c.'92 when it was sold back to WDW Co. It was always a weird deal - having a consortium of Norwegian businesses clubbing together to effectively buy access to Epcot. I can't remember what happened by the operator of the Morocco restaurants also had Paradiso 37 in DTD and that group (E-brands I think it was called) when bankrupt a few years ago. Rashid Choufani lost control of E-Brands I think but the Morocco pavilion operations were unaffected.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>It wasn't part of the partnership. Soft drinks, coffee and tea are free on DCL - specialty coffees are extra. There just isn't any need for a branded-coffee product onboard.<<< Thanks! I guess the Starbucks coffee is too expensive for the free coffee. The free coffee on the ship is terrible, like at the WDW resorts, so I would welcome something different. The speciality coffees on the ship were okay, but I wouldn't mind if the "coffee houses" on the ships would be replaced with Starbucks.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I've been to Tutto Italia since it replaced Alfredo's and it's okay, but it's nothing you can't find in any suburban Italian restaurant anywhere in the US>> Alfredo's were turfed at the end of their term so that WDW Co. could get Patina in on a far richer deal for Epcot. I don't think they even gave Alfredo's the opportunity to re-bid for an extension. Patina are a great operator but when you have these crazy revenue-sharing deals you've got to focus on cover turnover and minimising your costs. Quality and service goes out the window. Patina's product in SoCal is always very reliable.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Patina's product in SoCal is always very reliable.<< It's reliable, but it's also predictable and dull. Although I often end up at DLR around dinner time without a park ticket, I don't know when I last ate in DTD, since everything is so tired there. And the things that still seem interesting always have ridiculously long waits to get in I can see why this reliability is a good thing from an operations standpoint, but as a diner it isn't very exciting
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The biggest problem with this concept is that it shouldn't be a concept in the first place. The speakeasy movement has been so successful because it has that small intimate pop-up vibe." It's also a movement that peaked about two years ago, around the time that the Carthay Circle and Trader Sam's opened at DL.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^Sounds like they're just about on the right schedule for WDW getting anything attempting to be trendy. Same thing happened when they decided to make food trucks for DTD...about a year ago, after the trend has sort of played out
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Hard to say. WDW still has a Planet Hollywood, which to me says a lot.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It's also a movement that peaked about two years ago, around the time that the Carthay Circle and Trader Sam's opened at DL.>> It's not a tourist product - it continues to work very well in major cities like SF, NYC and London. I don't think the speakeasy movement has peaked - and I think there is enough innovation in the space that it can last this time. The ambience is one thing but the real driver is the drinks menu. People want to try different cocktails so you have to keep it fresh and exciting. I'm a big fan - much like immersive theater it has its place but in a large city with a professional population.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I've noticed that the population visiting WDW seems to have really changed over the years. I find that there are far more adults without any children along. I would think that this is bringing more upscale tastes and budgets to WDW as well. They have to be renting those rooms at the Four Seasons to someone.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I don't think the speakeasy movement has peaked - and I think there is enough innovation in the space that it can last this time." Well sure, if you're going to milk it to death to customers who have no appreciation for what they're drinking or experiencing it could last a decade or more. For anyone appreciates authenticity the trend reached its zenith a couple of years ago. A bar like Edison opening at WDW (in Lake Buena Vista of all places) is a case in point.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Not surprising that WDW is pushing Disney Springs'venues to the convention and meetings industry. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.disneymeetings.com/blog/24-disney-springs-offers-new-nightlife-options-for-convention-attendees/?CMP=SOC-MEETFY15Q3SOC-DM-Blog-06-10-15-0001">http://www.disneymeetings.com/...-15-0001</a>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^Very. I get that they wanted to project the significant changes that are being done to the area, but it's just a completely nondescript name that doesn't mean anything. "Downtown Disney" does a pretty good job of conveying the concept to someone who hasn't heard of it, it rolls of the tongue better, and it has a pretty strong brand awareness among WDW visitors. It just seems like a poor long-term choice when the only benefit is short-term marketing
Originally Posted By trekkeruss ""Downtown Disney" does a pretty good job of conveying the concept to someone who hasn't heard of it, it rolls of the tongue better" DtD sounds vibrant and exciting; a place you want to go. Disney Springs sounds like a health resort or some quiet place.
Originally Posted By dagobert I like the name Disney Springs, but I'm not a native speaker, so nearly every name in English sounds fine. Downtown Disney was also a good name, although I associate the area with the skyscrapers in big American cities with that name.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I associate downtown with any central business district. In a lot of small towns, their downtown looks a lot more like Main Street USA than anything with skyscrapers. Since relatively few cities in the US actually have a big skyscraper area, I think most people think of the place where there's always something going on and is generally interesting to be in (I know it's called city center in the UK, but even Petula Clark sang a song about Downtown) And I agree that Disney Springs sounds more like a spa resort in the mountains than a place to go for dinner and shopping
