Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>If they really want to level the playing field, they should eliminate the FP and let people that are visiting a "theme" park enjoy the walk through the lines like they used to.<<< Amen to that! Although I have gone on record numerous times about my disdain for FP, for some reason the idea of someone having to pay extra for the privilege makes it more palatable for me. I can easily watch people go on by knowing that they had to pay (hopefully through the nose) for the pass. Then the playing field would indeed be leveled. Let's face it...if you can afford to go to Disney, you can afford the extra for the FP if you want it. Then those of us that wouldn't pay for one can at least know that we are experiencing the same entertainment for a lesser cost in money and only a slightly different cost in time waiting. Probably less time!
Originally Posted By leobloom >>...for some reason the idea of someone having to pay extra for the privilege makes it more palatable for me. I can easily watch people go on by knowing that they had to pay (hopefully through the nose) for the pass. Then the playing field would indeed be leveled. >> I'm not understanding this. How is pay-for-play FP a more level playing field? Right now anyone with a ticket has access to the system. How is that not the most level playing field possible? Using it as a perk or as a pay system is only going to incite the animosity of the people who don't have access, who will *perceive* it as unfair treatment.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >Then the playing field would indeed be leveled. Let's face it...if you can afford to go to Disney, you can afford the extra for the FP if you want it< The problem is that the guest that Disney is catering to cannot really afford to go to Disney.If it wasn't for the free nights, food plan, etc, many people could not afford to go. >Using it as a perk or as a pay system is only going to incite the animosity of the people who don't have access, who will *perceive* it as unfair treatment.< Exactly my point. I would get no joy in watching people who pay for the FP walk on by while I waited in line if I couldn't afford to pay the extra $$. It would make me think twice about ever coming back. That's why I don't think it will ever happen. Furthermore, what I find unfair about the FP system is that if one does not get to the parks early enough, you may miss out or get nasty return times. If they are going to insist on the FP as an option, my suggestion would be to limit them to one in the morning, one in the afternoon and one in the evening.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...it still seems like a pretty good deal...especially if you get it for free as part of a package.< The "free" thing only works if you're paying rack rate for your room. It's easy these days to get discounts on rooms that equal or surpass what you'd pay for the DDP, so free is kind of a misnomer.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Good question, but I just don't think one has to do with another. I'd be more concerned if Disney picked a park like the MK and started offering pay FP's there on an experimental basis. I think most Americans, and more specifically the vacationer that Disney appears to be catering to (as mentioned in my earlier post) wouldn't tolerate it, since it would almost defeat the purpose of the special offers. <<< But these are the same guests that also pay extra for Halloween, Christmas and Princess Parties, when the other resorts offer the extras for free. In 2006, there were only 3 nights on our 2 10 day stay where the MK was open later, the rest were doing the MVMCP, which with the exception of free cookies and a photo, Disneyland, DLP and TDL were offering similar entertainment and hours to normal fee paying guests. Don't give Joe the Value Resort loving plumber too much credit. I would expect to see FP become an on site perk, with possible unlimited FP for suites and concierge guests (they do this at DLP already)
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >But these are the same guests that also pay extra for Halloween, Christmas and Princess Parties, when the other resorts offer the extras for free. In 2006, there were only 3 nights on our 2 10 day stay where the MK was open later, the rest were doing the MVMCP, which with the exception of free cookies and a photo, Disneyland, DLP and TDL were offering similar entertainment and hours to normal fee paying guests.,< You may argue that point, but it's tough to make that assumption w/o knowing exactly how many Value resort goers actually purchase the tickets to these events. Also, I think if Disney goes to pay FP, the price charged will determine how many "Joe the Value Resort loving plumber" (I like that phrase..a new acronym JVRLP's) actually will spring for the pay FP on a regular basis.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >The "free" thing only works if you're paying rack rate for your room. It's easy these days to get discounts on rooms that equal or surpass what you'd pay for the DDP, so free is kind of a misnomer.< I'm not getting your point. If it's easy to get discounts that equal or surpass what you would pay for DDP, then the free is not a misnomer. What am I missing here?
Originally Posted By danyoung I'm saying that it's easy to get 35 bucks or more off of your room via discounts that Disney gives just about year round now, especially if you're an annual passholder. So in the case of the DDP, they're just giving you your standard discount by adding on the dining plan. You could have just as easily received a room discount equal to or in most cases much greater than the cost of the DDP. I guess that technically it is free during some times of the year. But in the bigger picture it's just another form of vacation discount. I don't look at the "free" nature of the DDP being that big of a thing if I actually could have saved more money by taking advantage of the available room discounts, while paying list price for the DDP.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys ^^ Now I see what your saying, but I still maintain that whether you call it discounted or free, the people that would not go to WDW if it weren't for the discounting still wouldn't want to pay for FP. JMO.
Originally Posted By barboy ///the playing field would indeed be leveled(using a FP pay sysytem)/// No, that can not be. ---doesn't sound terribly fair to me because those with more money can adversely affect the waits of those with less money. What we have here is the basic economic issue: there is a finite amount of rides in 1 day for a given attraction. And for every FP that the "rich" buys there is one less ride available for the "poor". A more level approach is to dismantle the system entirely or leave it in its current state.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I think FP is a terrible system. You can argue about how it saves time and the convenience of it, but I think it has made the theme park experience miserable. You're on vacation for gosh sakes. Whatever happened to strolling through the park and joining lines as you come to them? And I know that people will disagree with me, but at the end of the day your time on lines is quite even. You may save time on Line A but the standby line on Line B is longer. When I was working at a popular attraction with FP we often had a 45-60 min wait even on slow days. When the new FP machines were added we went without FP for an entire week fo the switch over. Our wait time never got above 30 mins and most times it was at 20 min. FP is supposed to encourage people to go out and spend money. I dont think that people end up at the shops any more than they would without FP but it does create a whole new group of guests who are out to buck the system. Some with fake FP's. Some with FP's from a year ago. My favorite new guest that I never encountered before FP are those who come and say that this is their last day at Disney and they havent been able to ride a certain ride and could we PLEASE give them a FP to ride now before they have to head to the airport. It makes the CM experience terrible. In all the years I worked for Disney I got yelled at more in one year becaue of FP than 10 years without. It is one of the reasons that CM's are weary and frustrated. We are constantly bombarded by unhappy guests...both people with and people without FP's.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...the people that would not go to WDW if it weren't for the discounting still wouldn't want to pay for FP.< Agreed. >And for every FP that the "rich" buys there is one less ride available for the "poor".< I have never understood the point of those who say that pay for play of FP would make the system more fair. It's completely fair now, with the system available for the use of everybody. True, if you hit the parks earlier your chances of obtaining FP's are greater. But again, everyone has the option of going early, or sleeping in till noon and missing their chances. Totally fair.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Whatever happened to strolling through the park and joining lines as you come to them?< I can tell you exactly why I like FP. Previously, to get on a popular attraction like Space Mountain or Splash Mountain, you had to either get there early or pretty much wait in a 45 minute line. I don't like waiting in long lines, so I would just bypass those attractions unless I hit them first thing in the morning. Now I can get a FP, go do what I want to do, and come back and wait in a short line - basically exactly what FP is intended to do. > FP is supposed to encourage people to go out and spend money. I dont think that people end up at the shops any more than they would without FP...< I don't think that this byproduct of FP was anything more than wishful thinking on the park of Disney execs. It was never touted as a major reason for implementing FP. sjhym, I don't deny that you've had bad experiences from people trying to beat the system. I know I've never knowingly contributed to anything like that, but many people are opportunists. But ultimately the benefit of FP to me outweighs any increase in problems to CMs, in my opinion anyway. That's not to say that I don't care about you CMs - just that most of the problems you've listed could be fixed by firmer procedures from management.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 Management is afraid to enforce stricter procedures. It is a no win situation for them. They don't want unhappy guests. In a time when the company wants people to make Magical Moments, how do you respond to the many people who come up with hard luck stories? Can you imagine the backlash if Disney started to enforce the time rule? You can only come back in your hour window. What happens if your 10 mins late? 20 mins late? What do you say to someone who got stuck in another attraction or with a slow waiter? Ask most CM's who work a FP attraction and most will tell you what a miserable experience it can be and for those of us who have been there long enough to remember a pre-FP time that is especially true. And the fun really begins when an attraction breaks down. Try dealing with several hundred people who have waited to use their FP and you took it from them and then the attraction breaks down. I understand why people like FP. Again I think it is more of a mental thing than a time saver. You may wait 10 mins with your FP to ride Splash Mountain but Small World now has lines. It works great if your intention is to use it on that one E-ticket attraction and you dont want to wait on a long line. But the bigger picture is more complicated. I don't want to get into a long FP discussion. We have had tons of those here and no ones opinion is changed. I wish it would go away, not just as a CM but I feel that way as a guest. It will be interesting to see how FP morphs. What happens if resort guests can get FP's from their room before they leave for the park? What happens if only resort guests and people who can afford to pay for a FP becomes the norm at Disney? What happens if Disney goes to a FP system that can only be used by paying an upcharge?
Originally Posted By LadyandtheTramp Co-opting the reasoning from an earlier post, the way FP is set up now is a completely level playing field - everyone has the same access to getting FPs as everyone else. Whether they take advantage of it or not it up to them. Making FPs available for on-site guests, or even more horrific, to those who buy them, tilts the field in favor of those who can take advantage of the "perk". So Joe spends $75 to get into the park but has to wait in line while Jane spends her $75 but gets to go to the head of the line because she's staying on site - you're ripping Joe off. Or even worse is Trevor, who spends $75 to get into the park, then drops another $100 to buy his way to the front. Talk about stiffing Joe, who's trying to have a good time. I've been an annual passholder for the past 15 years, some years at both WDW and DL, but if they start selling front of the line passes, I'm pretty sure that my status as an annual passholder will join the Skyway and the Swan boats as something that was but is no longer.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I can pretty much guess where this is headed.... WDW has different levels of tickets you can ad don your base ticket, from park hopping, to the water parks, to no expiration. You can pick and choose which features you want... I say Disney is testing the waters for a "With Fast Pass" option where you pay 10 dollars extra per day in order to have the privlidge to use FPs.... Disney has proven they can make money nickel and diming people, why not take it one step further...
Originally Posted By danyoung >Disney has proven they can make money nickel and diming people...< While it seems to be nicel and diming people, it actually adds up to a pretty big chunk o' change for Disney. If it were indeed $10 a day, and say 15,000 a day took advantage in the MK, that would be $150,000 a day, or almost $55 MILLION a year. Pretty nice chunk o' change there!
Originally Posted By MPierce I will be completely surprised if we don't have a Phase 2 of Fast Pass developing within the next 18 months. What that entails could be a number of things. In my opinion though the most obvious one is pay-for play. A centralized distribution point just crys out for a pay-for-play pass. I wonder how big of a mess that has become at the DAK since it started?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Well, there is a pay FP being used at HKDL (remember Leemac mentioned it a few months back). And I believe DLP may have something similar. I know if you stay at the DLH over there or concierge level at Hotel New York and Newport Bay, they give you either unlimited FP or a certain allotment of VIP FPs. I won't be buying myself ...
