Originally Posted By fkurucz >> If they won’t spend the millions necessary to expand the monorail system, they could at least invest a fraction of that to come up with a ground transportation system that is a little more unique and inspiring than just ordinary city buses. << The problem with "custom" buses is that whatever these machines end up being, they would run on public streets, which means that they have to meet DOT standards and certifications, etc. Its just easier to buy off the shelf buses and paint Disney livery on them.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss The only way I see something extraordinary happening is if there was an extraordinary CEO at the helm of the company... someone with "crazy" ideas about the future, who was traveling around the world and thinking, "Hey, I want to showcase that at WDW as a possible solution to public needs." That is how the Disney parks ended up with the Skyway, Monorail, and PeopleMover. There isn't anyone to champion a fantastic and fururistic transportation scheme for WDW now.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "Its just easier to buy off the shelf buses and paint Disney livery on them." While I agree that it would definitely be easier, that's really not what I expect from Disney. It's also easier, and cheaper, to just by off-the-shelf carnival rides and add the to your park, but that's not what I expect from Disney either.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<No you can't easily put extra buses on for peak times. First of all you don't know how many you need.>> Oh come on... sure you can. It is no big mystery that every night you are going to need a bunch of extra busses (and drivers) around park closing. You know that every year you are going to need more busses (and drivers) between Christmas and New Years than you are going to need during the second week of January. To a large extent demand CAN be predicted and managed with busses. Driver schedules CAN be arranged so that you have more drivers working between 8:00 and 10:00 PM than you have working between 8:00 and 10:00 AM. Yes, you could also do this with monorails, but is made more difficult because of the complexity of getting the trains on and off the beam.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << There isn't anyone to champion a fantastic and fururistic transportation scheme for WDW now.>> Outside of Disney parks; how many Monorails, PeopleMovers, and Skyways are in use in the United States right now? They may be cool, but they aren't practical for REAL transit solutions. For moving a bunch of people from a parking lot to a park? Sure, works pretty good. For a transit system needing hundreds of routes to dozens of destinations? Not so good. By the way... I'm very surprised you through Skyway into the mix. Was there EVER a time when you couldn't walk between the two stations in a fraction of the time it would take waiting in line and then riding the Skyway? Let's face it. Walt put ATTRACTIONS in his parks; not realistic transit systems.
Originally Posted By Labuda "We did have one time where two Downtown Disney busses arrived at our stop before a Magic Kingdom bus arrived." Seriously? Wow, man. Complete and utter total WOW from me. Honestly, I'm used to seeing about 45 minutes between DTD buses hitting the resorts I've stayed at. That's actually part of why I always like to have a car - I spend a lot of time at DTD/PI.
Originally Posted By Labuda Re #26: At the Minneapolis airport, they have a moving sidewalk, IIRC, ditto Intercontinental airport in Houston - places like airports are a great place for these moving sidewalks. Heck, the one @ IAH is even made by WED, I believe.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss i don't disagree with anything you wrote, RT. I wasn't suggesting that Monorails, PeopleMovers or Skyways be installed all over the property; just that there is no "kook" at the helm to oversee the construction of such crazy things, or even less crazy ideas such as technologically advanced buses. As for why I put the Skyway on my list, it's because Disney saw it originally as a transportation solution, or at least that is what I have read; it was considered for the parking lot (as opposed to the trams.)
Originally Posted By leemac WDW is currently in the midst of a transport policy overhaul. The new Magic in Motion music system is about to be introduced that will improve the ambience for guests and that is the first phase. The resort is looking closely at replacing the diesel buses with either a clean fuel or all-electric fleet. They should make a decision this year and start to bring them online next. I suspect the resort will opt for a biofuel or gas which will be more reliable than electric. They are also looking into the masterplan for the whole resort for the next twenty years and transport policy is key. There is a big groundswell of opinion in management that a light rail system is essential especially along BV Drive. The key crunch is still Downtown Disney and that will be the main focus for any future developments.
Originally Posted By AuroraRose could they press the airport busses into service during peak times? I know this sounds like a silly idea, but how often do they send the magical express busses back and forth to the airport? do people tend to arrive at night, or more in the morning and afternoon? i guess it would depend on how many ME busses they have, and if they have drivers to staff them.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<They are also looking into the masterplan for the whole resort for the next twenty years and transport policy is key. There is a big groundswell of opinion in management that a light rail system is essential especially along BV Drive. The key crunch is still Downtown Disney and that will be the main focus for any future developments.>> There are many possibilities out there, and I think people who don't look past monorails are dismissing some good options. There are even ways to significantly improve bus transit. As I mentioned in a prior post, dedicated transitways used ONLY by Disney busses could make the system much faster. You can also replace current busses with new ones that look much more futuristic. I've linked below to a photo of busses that are going to be used in North Las Vegas: <a href="http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2000/Oct-23-Mon-2000/photos/news.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/ 2000/Oct-23-Mon-2000/photos/news.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>While I agree that it would definitely be easier, that's really not what I expect from Disney. It's also easier, and cheaper, to just by off-the-shelf carnival rides and add the to your park, but that's not what I expect from Disney either.<< True, but transportation from the resorts to the parks are not attractions. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great if all resorts were served by high speed monorails, but the cost would be prohibitive. Same for something other than buses that would use the public roads. I also think that the problem is flexibility, which is where the buses really shine (aside from price). With buses, you can board a bus at your resort that will take you directly to your destination. This would be tough to do with trains or monorails. They would probably need a hub system, where guests would have to switch trains.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<They are also looking into the masterplan for the whole resort for the next twenty years and transport policy is key>> Okay, I was wrong... glad to hear they are looking into new buses at the least.
Originally Posted By leemac <<could they press the airport busses into service during peak times?>> There is a distinction in that WDW Transport is owned and operated by WDW Co. but the DCL/DME buses are owned and operated by Mears. That said WDW do use the DCL/DME buses for purposes other than those intended but it would be difficult to mobilize them if they had a "transport on demand" policy (ie. the buses are directed to where they are needed the most rather than a fixed schedule). They do try to do this at present with their own buses but the lack between demand and supply doesn't make it very visible. At the recent Big Blue World party for the media at Epcot Mears were responsible for the transportation back to guests' hotels but they opted to bring in other operators rather than using their own buses (so in effect were only acting as marshals). It just seemed weird to me that they didn't use the DCE/DME buses especially as this was about 7-8pm at night.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost <<<Oh come on... sure you can. It is no big mystery that every night you are going to need a bunch of extra busses (and drivers) around park closing. You know that every year you are going to need more busses (and drivers) between Christmas and New Years than you are going to need during the second week of January>>> I was assuming that you people were talking about over and above the extras that go out there now. They plan for the average number of people with average traffic patterns. No one can predict from day to day what they might run into, literally or figuratively. Initially there are X number of buses waiting to take people back at closing. They fill up and head out to the destination. After the first wave of buses leave, the plan would be to have the first one that left be back and a continuance of loading would happen. That doesn't happen all the time. Traffic may be heavier than usual or an accident that brought everything to a stop or near stop will change all that. The one's that were not in the first wave sometimes have to wait but let's get real here, the place is not run on Pixie Dust, it is real and one can only plan so much. You have to go by previous experience and that could be totally different the night you need a bus. Honestly, if it is that big a problem bring your own car and stop being reliant on someone else to take your butt back to your room. When you rely on others you cannot control what happens nor should one expect that there will be enough transportation available at exactly the time one wants it. If you had been first in line you would have been sleeping by now.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<<<You can easily put more busses on the road to handle peak times of the day>> Do we know for a fact that they don't do this already? >> I didn't see that as a problem... I was pointing out what I saw as one of the advantages of busses over monorails. It seems to me that Disney currently runs considerably more busses during peak periods.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I can't imagine that a light rail system would be more efficient or less expensive than expanding monorail service. I can see tremendous liability with operating a rail system that has potential to injure guests who might wander onto the tracks. It happens all the time on light rail systems across the country. A modest expansion of monorail service to include only the EPCOT resorts and Disney/MGM might improve the transit options for a significant number of on-property guests. Most importantly, the biggest decision that Disney needs to make transportation-wise is how to replace the Bombardier designed monorails that have not been nearly as reliable or durable as the previous designs Disney used for decades before the Bombardier system went into service. I am also surprised that Disney has tested extended-length buses that most larger cities use. I think that the use of larger capacity buses would improve a number of transit issues around the resort.
