Originally Posted By LuLu I understand posts 59 & 60, but if someone uses their new AP for a week-long (or longer) trip in the first month, then cancels their credit card, they've pretty much ripped Disney off, even if it's not exactly money out of Disney's pocket. I guess I'm overthinking this. Hopefully the number of people who would do something like that is very small.
Originally Posted By LuLu Nonetheless, it's amazing (if true), as reported on another board, that you can use your free birthday pass as the down payment on an AP. You basically have a free AP for the first month, and Disney's trusting you won't do anything unscrupulous.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>if someone uses their new AP for a week-long (or longer) trip in the first month, then cancels their credit card, they've pretty much ripped Disney off<< Yeah, I had the same thought. Being an Australian, I've only had an AP once - we went for an 11-day trip in 2003 and it worked out cheaper to get APs, especially with the dining and shopping discounts. Anyway (if the payment plan had been around then) I could have used it for that trip, then come home and cancelled my credit card, since we knew we weren't going again in the next year. Of course, I absolutely wouldn't ever do that, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are some people out there who might. As you said, hopefully if there are people who do it they're a very small percentage.
Originally Posted By Mr X This might be true in a limited number of cases, but I highly doubt there are a whole bunch of nefarious criminals out to steal a few days at Disneyland. Not to mention the fact that if you're really of such a mind there are easy enough ways to hop fences or scam your way through the gates. And that wouldn't potentially harm your credit history either. Next question. ;p
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Next question. ;p<<< How does DL stop being commoditised which erodes even more of what makes the place so special?
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't understand "commoditised". What does that mean? Honest question here, I'm just not understanding this part. Or how it pertains to how they sell tickets to the park. As far as what is eroding what makes the place special, does that really have to do with ticket sales or how they accomplish that? I really don't think so. It has more to do, I think, with the true sentiment of America these days...which is that mediocrity is a good thing. We see that reflected in the Disney parks to such an extent now, I think I could write a book. It's "good enough", and so that's all you get. Not happy? Go someplace else (because we're the "best"..mediocre though we may be). I understand your arguments, Dave, I really do. But I don't see why getting pissed about a payment plan (not to mention insulting families of four who can't necessarily afford $1,500 at a whack in order to pay for the exorbitant tickets as "people who Disneyland isn't meant for") is really the answer.
Originally Posted By danyoung >What does that mean? Honest question here, I'm just not understanding this part. Or how it pertains to how they sell tickets to the park.< When something becomes cheap enough, it becomes a commodity. And I just can't see this as anything but a good thing for Disney parks - that even more people can come in and enjoy the place without having to pay major money per day. It's absolutely no different than taking an AP and putting it on a credit card, except for the fact that a credit card will charge interest.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, I don't think that's necessarily a "good thing"...who wants crowded parks (except for Disney themselves, of course lol)? Having said that though, I don't think making the annual pass a payment option thing makes the place "cheaper". If anything, the Disney parks have become horrifically expensive these past few years. Heck, trying to get my THREE year old into the parks in Florida (the rest of us were comped) cost a disgusting ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE dollars, for one three year old child, WITH a discount. Sorry..I don't buy the "commodity" argument, if I'm understanding it correctly. The parks are grossly overpriced as amusement options these days.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo In order to build mega AA laden attractions, provide broadway quality shows, have thoroughly accurate theming and cohesive stories costs money. By cheapening a product, it takes much longer to recoup one's investment. The business case no longer stacks up, so we get cheaper and lower quality offerings. Eventually what made us all fall in love with Disney parks will disappear. We are already seeing it - cutting entertainment, reducing shows, questionable quality of numerous attractions, reduction of menu offerings, diminished shopping experiences with the same Jack Sparrow and Princess rubbish everywhere. Can you imagine what next. I see it all the time with organisations I have worked with. The steps are reduce more or go bankrupt. Eventually people stop paying to travel to the resorts and the place becomes another 6 Flags experience. Disney was never designed to be a place people go regularly and cheaply. The amount of people who used to save up even in the relatively cheap days of ticket books. Why did they save? Because it was worth it. Characters in IASW and Winnie the Pooh offerings are not worth it. Hence why I think this (and the AP programme) are bad for the DLR.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Why do you think people complain that Indy was the last sizeable addition to DL park? It takes money to build these things.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In order to build mega AA laden attractions, provide broadway quality shows, have thoroughly accurate theming and cohesive stories costs money.*** I've yet to see any hint of a broadway quality show at Disney, and yes that includes that Nemo bore in Animal Kingdom that so many said was so good. *yawn* As for the rest, sure it costs money. They should've considered it when they were making money hand over fist in the good economy days, and built incredible things like DisneySea in America...they didn't. Instead, they built on the cheap and tried to squeeze a nickel out of every penny. Now that times are tough, you think they're going to do anything more than hunker down? Guess again.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Disney was never designed to be a place people go regularly and cheaply.*** I beg to (strongly) differ. Amusement parks, by and large, have always been the cheap entertainment alternative for the unwashed masses (I'll happily include myself in the unwashed mass, fwiw). Disneyland is no different. You want "exclusive"? Go find a country club. Amusement parks are for everyone.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Why do you think people complain that Indy was the last sizeable addition to DL park? It takes money to build these things.*** Yes, and that's entirely because Disney has been utterly poor and poverty stricken ever since Indy was built, right? WRONG. Those were the good years. They chose to go cheap, and greedily rake in every penny they could get their grubby hands on (just like the banks...go figure). NOW, times are different. Do you really expect them to build some big, spectacular rides as they raise ticket prices? Now? I think you're in for a long wait, my friend. (I mean..if they didn't do it THEN...you know what I mean) Perhaps we should all dedicate ourselves to Zen Gardens or something...we'd probably be a lot happier (I hear they are planning to ruin DisneySea too, as we speak!).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed, but this position will not turn it around, it will accelerate the trajectory. I don't want to sound snobby, i don't mean to, but I do not want a 6 Flags vibe. People talk about Disney magic. I am afraid the attitude of the clientele are a big part of that. By making the place special, it keeps it special, and that includes pricing. DL used to be the 5* theme park experience, that is why I fell in love. A few years ago, they became the steakhouse of themeparks, better than the rest, attention to quality there. This will make it the Olive Garden, which is still about acceptable. But if we are not careful, it will become the McDonald's of the industry, and that is not a good thing. Not at all. Keep the prices up and build the quality. Heck, I don't expect everyone to have the latest games console or buy new clothes each week, why should I expect everyone to go to DL all the time?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I do not want a 6 Flags vibe*** Believe me, brutha...neither do I! Nobody does (not any Disney fans that I know of, anyway)!
Originally Posted By Mr X I think you are really off base with the whole "keep it expensive" thing though. It's an amusement park, Dave...not a Gucci Purse or Jimmy Choo Shoes. Keeping the place "elitist" can only go so far before you find no customers at the door (people who discriminate do NOT tend to flock to Disneyland...believe it or not...).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Keep the prices up and build the quality.*** I'm guessing you missed my comments about the fact that when the prices were UP and times were GOOD, they lowered the quality. You seem to be stuck in some sort of fantasy illusion on this issue, Dave...they DID have the numbers, the cash, the following...everything on their side and STILL built on the cheap (bigtime). Somehow now you feel that dropping the ticket price is meaningful or important? I think you are a bit delusional on this one...somehow blaming "the poor" for the state of Disney or something. It's unrelated. Completely and absolutely. You're entirely missing the point.
Originally Posted By danyoung >By cheapening a product...< You haven't convinced me that changing the way I pay for my AP is in any way cheapening the product. It's only providing more value to me, in that I can budget the AP expense out over a year as opposed to saving up for it. I still pay exactly the same amount for an AP, but now it's more convenient. >Disney was never designed to be a place people go regularly and cheaply.< Like Mr. X, I strongly disagree. Way back in '55, Walt wanted people to be let in for free. He was convinced that this would not be prudent, so he grudgingly allowed a small fee for entrance, and then a small fee per attraction. It was only in '84 when Eisner, Wells and the Bass brothers entered the picture that prices started to skyrocket. And this was only to keep the stockholders happy - it had nothing to do with the perceived value of the place. And to offset those huge increases, management did build some incredible attractions like Star Tours and Captain EO. All in all a pretty sound business move at the time, making Disney more money while giving us more first rate attractions. Look, I'm not saying that I don't want new attractions in the parks - I do. But I'm with Mr. X - with the economy in the shape it's in today, Disney is nothing but smart to try to promote its properties without laying out 10's of millions of dollars for the next big attraction. If they can keep the numbers up that way, they're doing right by their stockholders. And as long as people keep coming (like me!), they'll keep doing the same thing. I'm willing to be patient - there's lots of stuff to do both in DL and in WDW to keep me happy for now.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Disney is nothing but smart to try to promote its properties without laying out 10's of millions of dollars for the next big attraction<< But when you look at how long it takes to design and construct the "next big thing", the longer they wait to begin, it's that much farther into the future before we'll see it. And who knows where the economy will be a couple years from now? Hopefully, Disney will time it right and not wait TOO long. On a side note: It is interesting, however, that despite all those predictions especially on other websites about how Disney planned to reduce or eliminate the AP program, we see that those predictions couldn't have been more off base and wishful thinking. This easy-payment plan is designed to maintain and expand the program in a big way.
