Originally Posted By mousermerf Most "like" as the UG, which heavily promotes the use of FP, is the best selling guidebook on WDW.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I think you'll find that the vast majority of park patrons either like it or don't care one way or the other.<<< I don't think that there is any doubt about that statement. I agree with it 1000%. If I were nothing more than a "park patron" I would, in all likelihood feel neutral, when I get the chance to use it. If any emotion, it would be...wow, I get to go right up and not wait in line. How cool is that? My observations, however, are not based on what I would like everyone to think, but, instead on, what I have actually witnessed in the standby lines. The anger and frustration of standing in the heat, and trying to keep young ones occupied during the wait and then just having to look up and see others breeze right in. Some may not like to face that fact, but, it does exist. Something that never existed to that degree previous to Fastpass. As a, self confessed, Disney fan I am concerned more for tomorrow then how fast I can get through the ride today. We need to ask ourselves this important question... What would Walt Disney think about a system that leaves that large a group of "guests" frustrated and sometimes angry when visiting his parks. We, as members of this elite group, as a group, probably don't even cover the cost of one weeks WDW's electricity bill. Disney Parks need a long, long range, large, large contingency of happy vacationers that want to return year after year. That has been my fear and what I continue to think about when contemplating the current system. If Fastpass didn't cause those negative feelings to exist, I would be right on board with all of you that support it. It's just that my fear of the long range effect for the purpose of instant gratification of a few, seems to over power my feelings of joy. And in the words of Forrest Gump..."that's all I am going to say about that".
Originally Posted By barboy "The anger and frustration of standing in the heat," Don't go in August. I purposely go when the kids are in school, the weather is warm but not hot, the airfare and on property hotel rates are most attractive. If somebody doesn't know that half of the earth's population shows up in June-Aug. and the heat is brutal then maybe they have bigger traveling and planning problems than FP. And If one insists on going for spring break/Easter, Thanksgiving, the week after Christams and complain about waiting in lines then they only have themselves to blame and nobody else, FP or no FP. "What would Walt Disney think" What would our founding fathers think? What would Jesus think? All three I don't know nor do I care. And for the record I say do away with FP everywhere----all parks in the world---except Disneyland Resort, Anaheim. I want it kept alive and well there.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Don't you just love debate? I know you don't care...that's what worries me.
Originally Posted By barboy I care far more than most and have very strong opinions just like many others about FP. I just don't care about the cliche: "what would Walt Disney think?" ---as if assigning infallibility to him. I'm not saying this about you Goof, but some bestow infallibility on Mr. Disney for anything Disney related much like Catholics do with the pope--- First, I don't know what he would think. Second, even if I did know his take, it would not affect my position on FP.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<What would Walt Disney think about a system that leaves that large a group of "guests" frustrated and sometimes angry when visiting his parks.>> I don't think that that many people are that frustrated and angry about FP. But for the sake of argument and hypothetical discussion, I'd say he'd think about ways to cut down everyone's wait by increasing efficiency, ride capacities and adding more attractions, and overall just make people feel like they got their money's worth.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss ^^To expand on that, I wonder what Walt Disney would have thought about the all-inclusive ticket. The coupon book + general admission is arguably a more equitable system than is making everyone pay for rides they might not experience.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Speaking of paying per ride, does anyone have an opinion on the idea of Disney charging for FastPass? If they did this, would you still think it was a good idea? Would you pay for it? Do you think it likely that Disney will ever do this? Since I don't think FastPass is a good idea, my original opinion wouldn't change. With that said, and assuming it had a reasonable price, I would probably pay for it. But I'm not sure that Disney will ever do it. I think they would like too, but it may not be worth the bad PR if they do start charging for it.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I wonder what Walt Disney would think of current oil prices? Or that Hillary Clinton won Philadelphia?
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "The coupon book + general admission is arguably a more equitable system than is making everyone pay for rides they might not experience." I'd personally love to see a return to this system. When I go on a busy day, I pay just as much to get in now, and end up riding less attractions than on a slow day. I'd much rather just pay for the attractions that I get to ride on each time I visit. And not only that, by charging for each ride, Disney would once again have the incentive to really blow our socks off with new attractions - that they could then charge at a higher price. Seems like a win-win to me.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost "what would Walt Disney think?" ---as if assigning infallibility to him. I'm not saying this about you Goof, but some bestow infallibility on Mr. Disney for anything Disney related much like Catholics do with the pope--- <<< Gracious, you guys sure do know how to stretch a point to infinity and beyond. I wasn't saying "what would Walt think" as a cliche. I was asking a question based on Mr. Disney's ability to do the right thing with his company. I am the last one to consider him infallible. Everything I have read about him or just looking at the legacy that he left behind, I'd say he did more things right, along the lines of what people would like, then any of us would ever hope too. So in this case I would yield to his expertise as opposed to anyone else's. I don't know either what he would have thought about it but as a later poster said..."I'd say he'd think about ways to cut down every one's wait by increasing efficiency, ride capacities and adding more attractions, and overall just make people feel like they got their money's worth." I didn't see Fastpass mentioned in there. And I really do not believe he would think it a great idea. Because we are all alleged Disney fans, I would think that we would want to wonder what way he would have done, or does that apply only when it adversely affects us, like the loss of Horizons, 20K, Mr. Toad, the original Tiki Room in Magic Kingdom. My opinion is that Fastpass is bad in the long haul. It discourages imaginative "Q's because imagineers can't see the sense of detail if people aren't going to actually see it. It encourages frustration for those left behind and just seems to have a lot more negative things attached then positives. Now unlike my previous promise, I am going to seriously call this my final words on the subject. I'm just repeating the same stuff over and over, as is everyone else. I'm going to (dare I say it) take a fast pass on this topic.
Originally Posted By barboy "I wasn't saying "what would Walt think" as a cliche. I was asking a question based on Mr. Disney's ability to do the right thing with his company." Yes, Goof--- I know your question was honest and straight forward. And what I'm saying is that too many times posters invoke the old "walt would have wanted that way" or "Walt would be rolling in his grave" stuff as if that is some authority warrant, that's all.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I remember I was jogging past the people standing in the Stand-by line. A guy muttered under his breath -- 'what an ??!@!!' I stopped. Backing up 20-30 people behind me. 'What did you say?' 'You heard me.' he said 'Walking past all of us, as we're standing in this line, you think you're real cool don't you?' 'Not really, I just got a Disney FastPass.' 'A what?' he asked. 'A Disney FastPass.' I lifted the queue rope, and I asked him and his family to follow me to the FastPass location. 'But I've been waiting in line.' he said. 'No more waiting in line my thick-headed friend. I'm going to show you a way that you can ride rides, and NOT stand in line. Follow me!' At that moment, the people in the FastPass line had stacked up to about 50. They all began screaming and cheering. The other people in the standby line looked confused [because they're dumb] and they spontaneously started cheering too.
Originally Posted By barboy "It discourages imaginative "Q's because imagineers can't see the sense of detail if people aren't going to actually see it." Well now let's take a look at some history to see if there might be a compelling correlation. Assumption: headliner ride should have a quality queue. FP came out in '99. Here are the headliner rides introduced post '99 where I feel that the Q's were done well: LA---------none Orlando----Everest, Mission Space, Nemo clams Paris------none Tokyo------IJ, Journey TTCE, Hightower Hotel(ToT) Now, these headliner rides since '99 I feel got the shaft with a lowsy/low quality Q: LA------- Cal. sream'n, Grizzly River, Soar'n, Nemo subs Orlando---Soar'n Paris---- Crush coaster Tokyo---- Stormrider, Raging Spirits, Sindbad Voyage, 20K leagues, Pooh Note: Hong Kong has no custom/original headliner rides therefore she doesn't apply. Maybe you are right afterall Goof
Originally Posted By magnet I researched one patent for a virtual queue system that has contributed to the design of Disney’s FastPass. I’d like to share some enlightening entries from the patent itself: Assignee: Disney Enterprises, Inc. Burbank, CA Patent No. 6,173,209 B1 Date of Patent: Jan. 9, 2001 In what follows, I’ll quote some interesting excerpts from the patent. In each of these sections, “first queue†represents what we know as the “standby queue†and “second queue†represents what we know as the “FastPass queue.†You’ll also see some numbers in the text which have been assigned to each claim in the patent. “In the event the customer obtains a pass from a remote media distributor 38, the customer simply continues about their activities until it is necessary to travel to the vicinity of the attraction at the assigned time. As described in more detail below, the right of a customer to obtain passes may be a value added feature for which the customer pays additional monies (such as at the same time as purchasing a main ticket).†There it is, right in the patent! A suggestion that the FastPass system could become a value added feature. This hasn’t happened at WDW in the almost nine years since the patent was filed, but don’t be fooled for one minutes that FastPass couldn’t suddenly become something you have to pay extra money for. I’m sure that everyone has figured that this might happen at one point, but here is evidence that Disney has been considering this from the beginning. “Again, an algorithm processor 250 is arranged to communicate with the master controller 244 to provide times to be assigned and printed by the media distributor 238. In one or more embodiments, the system may be arranged so that not all customers are entitled to access the attraction 22 via the second queue. In another embodiment, one or more customers may be permitted to access certain attractions via the second queue and other attractions only via the first queue. In one or more embodiments, only customers which pay a premium amount or obtain some special entitlement are permitted to access one or more attractions via the second queue.†Well now, that’s just a horrible, horrible idea. To what set of guests are we now going to deny FastPasses? Hmmm…. Oh, I know – let’s only allow guests staying on property at Disney resorts to get FastPasses! Because you’re not staying on property, now you essentially have to pay the penalty of standing in longer lines. Oh, and there’s that nasty notion of paying for FastPass again too. Let’s shaft the poor people! Does FastPass still sound like a great thing to you? “In one or more embodiments, one or more customers may be permitted to access an attraction via the second queue 26 apart from the standard method of establishing entitlement at the first validator 40 and then returning to the second queue 26 of the attraction at the assigned time. For example, one or more passes may be issued to a number of customers which include pre-assigned times. One or more customers might, for example, be issued passes on the same day or days or weeks before the assigned date of access. A customer arranging a trip to a theme park may be permitted to purchase passes. In one or more embodiments, these assigned "spots†are accounted for by the system when determining other passes to issue to those accessing the attraction with the first validator.†Oh, it just gets worse and worse the farther I go into this patent. How would you like to hear the following when you call to make your vacation plans? “Oh, I’m sorry, but all the available FastPass openings for Big Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, and Splash Mountain after 9 AM and/or before 10 PM have been taken during the days you’d like to visit.†I guess you should have scheduled your vacation earlier. Disney is fully aware of what FastPass could allow them to do, and believe me – it’s not very magical from where I stand on this side of the wand. It’s bad enough now, so where are we headed from here?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Does FastPass still sound like a great thing to you?>> Yes. So what if "poor people" get the shaft? Some people can't afford to go to Disney at all. At the moment, I can't. That doesn't make FP or Disney unfair.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle Disney's not really the place for 'poor people' who are worried about the extra cost of an FP. You have to pay for your airline tickets, or at least for petrol if you can drive to the parks. Accomodation. Food and drinks. Merchandise. And of course, any extra services you might want, like water sports. Seriously, I think if it comes to the point where you have to pay for FastPass then people will decide whether to budget it into their holiday or not, the same as everything else. Some people would rather save money by staying offsite and others spend the extra for the convenience (or the 'magic'). Some people bring their own breakfast foods while others would rather splurge on buffets. People make those decisions, and deal with it. For me, I'm paying so much to get to any of the Disney parks (I'm in Australia, so the average trip's about $10 000) that an extra $10 or $50 or whatever really isn't that big a deal if I decide I want FastPass. Besides, for the anti-FP people perhaps people paying for FastPass would be a good thing. Depending on how much they charge, surely less people would get it than the amount who currently use it, which would mean less people going through the FastPass queue, which would mean less bitterness for those in the standby queue who don't like watching people walk past them. Of course, I think getting FPs in advance, rather than just the day of, is a terrible idea, but I hate the fact that you can book your dining 6 months out, too.
Originally Posted By barboy "How would you like to hear the following when you call to make your vacation plans? “Oh, I’m sorry, but all the available FastPass openings for Big Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, and Splash Mountain after 9 AM and/or before 10 PM have been taken during the days you’d like to visit.†I guess you should have scheduled your vacation earlier." ---sounds like Disney Dining reservations to me, no? Instead of reserving a table at Japan's Tep. it's a seat on Big Thunder. Again, I see, in principle, the same thing coming into play. So Magnet are you still LOL at my comparison?
Originally Posted By barboy "let’s only allow guests staying on property at Disney resorts to get FastPasses! Because you’re not staying on property, now you essentially have to pay the penalty of standing in longer lines. Oh, and there’s that nasty notion of paying for FastPass again too. Let’s shaft the poor people!" Hello, Universal I wonder how they're doing with that model up the freeway a few miles on 4.
