Originally Posted By magnet >>>So what if "poor people" get the shaft?<<< Of course! Poor people get the shaft all the time. So, it MUST be OK. If you can't afford to go, you have nothing to complain about. It's after you pay when the problem occurs. Paying for FastPass is like Disney saying, "Pay us extra money and we'll make some other guest, who paid the same price for his admission ticket, wait the time you would have spent waiting." It's OK to pay for something where the one you're paying is providing an additional benefit that they have to give. The bad thing here is that Disney would be charging both for admission, and then taking away some of the benefit of that admission from one person and giving it to the other. Disney would be double charging for the access. Disney would be making you pay for something that they had to steal back from another guest to give to you. >>>which would mean less bitterness for those in the standby queue who don't like watching people walk past them.<<< Again, you can’t get upset about the rules of a completely different queue. I think you can be bitter, though, if the presence of one queue is interfering with the operation of the other and limiting overall accessibility to the ride. >>>So Magnet are you still LOL at my comparison?<<< Well, you’re not going to get me to say that a FastPass is the same as a dining reservation. It’s not. I’m not paying for my dinner ahead of time and then trying to jockey for a table in a standby line. LOL! And I’ve never seen anyone eat a giant meal, run outside and get back in the line again saying, “Wow, let’s do it again right NOW!†Uggghhh, puke, puke, puke! The dining reservation analogy would fit better if we had a mandatory virtual queue for the ride system, which I see you do not favor at least for dining. In many WDW restaurants, when demand is high, walkups are generally disallowed meaning you must go through the virtual queue. Like I said before, mixed queue operation is worse than single queue operation. I meant it. An exclusive virtual queue is better than part one and part the other. However, the exclusive virtual queue has its own set of issues, as you seem to be complaining about now….
Originally Posted By leobloom Mag, doesn't the $11 parking fee keep out some of the po' people? Not to mention the $70-per-day price to enter the park? Get real. Disney overcharges, but people still pay, so I guess they're justified in their prices. I wouldn't pay them, but whatever...
Originally Posted By magnet >>>Mag, doesn't the $11 parking fee keep out some of the po' people? Not to mention the $70-per-day price to enter the park?<<< Sure it does. As I said already, they can’t afford to go and so this issue doesn’t affect them. See, I’m not arguing that the price of admission is too high, or that the nightly cost of a room is too high. That’s not it at all. I’m talking about what you get AFTER you pay for the service or good. I’m talking about taking back something you’ve already sold and giving it to someone else who had extra cash to spend. >>>Get real.<<< I think that would make a good rap song. We could get Iger and the board out in front of the MK, dress them like rappers, and make a cool music video about the new change in FastPass. The promotion could go like this, “You thought FastPass was free….? Well,…GET REAL!†Now, some beatboxing….
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>>which would mean less bitterness for those in the standby queue who don't like watching people walk past them.<<< Again, you can’t get upset about the rules of a completely different queue. I think you can be bitter, though, if the presence of one queue is interfering with the operation of the other and limiting overall accessibility to the ride.<< Well, my post was in response to several people in this thread who have said that their problem with FastPass is the mental / emotional aspect of watching people walk right by them while they're moving through the line more slowly. Jim even said he felt a little guilty being the one doing the walk past the longer standby queue. That's what I was referring to. So, less people with FastPass means less people "skipping the queue" and therefore, that problem is reduced.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>Well, my post was in response to several people in this thread who have said that their problem with FastPass is the mental / emotional aspect of watching people walk right by them while they're moving through the line more slowly.<<< OK, LB.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I’m not arguing that the price of admission is too high, or that the nightly cost of a room is too high. That’s not it at all. I’m talking about what you get AFTER you pay for the service or good. I’m talking about taking back something you’ve already sold and giving it to someone else who had extra cash to spend.>> Assuming Disney started charging for FP, the non-FP holders aren't having something taken away: they still get to ride (if they so choose.) The only difference is they may wait a little longer. <<Disney would be making you pay for something that they had to steal back from another guest to give to you.>> Um, yeah, okay, if you really want to look at it that way. They also charged the same price for a guest who showed up at the gate at noon. Perhaps no "stealing" of time was involved, but it's still unfair by some standard. Perhaps a better example is earlier entry for resort guests. On my last trip, I had to wait in longer lines in the morning because resort guests were allowed into the park before I was. Shame on Disney for giving a benefit to guests who paid more money than me. I'm honestly baffled by your constant attempts to show in every possible way that FP is abusing people. I think it's beyond reason, and pointless to keep citing all these hypothetical examples when I sincerely doubt you're going to sway anyone's opinion. In other words, I think you're pissing in the wind. But I'll continue to answer because I have nothing better to do. LOL.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I think it's a really interesting thread -- FastPass is one of those concepts that reads well on paper "reserve your place in line" -- but falls apart in practice bevsuse it tosses out one of Disney's own concepts -- "every guest is a VIP" and outstanding customer service philosophies. I wonder how it was tested before being implemented?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<FastPass is one of those concepts that reads well on paper "reserve your place in line" -- but falls apart in practice because it tosses out one of Disney's own concepts -- "every guest is a VIP" and outstanding customer service philosophies.>> Jim, throwing out the ol' "every guest is a VIP" line is almost as bad as the "DL will never be completed as long as there is imagination" one. LOL.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>The only difference is they may wait a little longer.<<< I really don’t know how you can say that with a straight face. It just cracks me up. Are you pulling my leg, or do you really believe this? >>>They also charged the same price for a guest who showed up at the gate at noon.<<< LOL! I feel like I’m on a game show called, “The Hot Seat.†The trouble is that you keep blowing it cold. Announcer: Magnet, welcome to this edition of “The Hot Seat.†Cue ominous music. (think of the music that’s played on Who Wants to be a Millionaire before each question is read) OK, look. The ticket you buy can be redeemed anytime and is good for an entire day. If you use it to enter the park one hour before it closes, you are a fool. You can’t blame that on Disney. >>>On my last trip, I had to wait in longer lines in the morning because resort guests were allowed into the park before I was. Shame on Disney for giving a benefit to guests who paid more money than me.<<< I have wondered about this. I’ve been told by someone I trust that base admission does not pay the cost of operating the park for extra magic hours, so I’m OK with them. In this case, the benefit supplied by Disney is theirs to give, so that is fine. >>>I think you're pissing in the wind.<<< Yeah, and boy do I sure have a lot of piss! Come a little closer and I’ll splash some on you.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Jim, throwing out the ol' "every guest is a VIP" line is almost as bad as the "DL will never be completed as long as there is imagination" one. LOL.> You can LOL, but it seems that Disney likes to present those fabulous Guest Services philosophies when groups of business professionals are paying top dollar to have some shiny faced Disney Cast Member tell them how it's done. The Disney Way or whatever. Then, when it suits them [see the lack of a berm in Disney's California Adventure] they toss out the rules.
Originally Posted By leobloom Darn! That 'Word' was directed towards Magnet's copious amounts of piss.
Originally Posted By leobloom But on second thought, that approving 'Word' applies to Jim's comment as well.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I really don’t know how you can say that with a straight face. It just cracks me up. Are you pulling my leg, or do you really believe this?>> I say it with an absolute straight face, because as I already pointed out, you're making hypothetical arguments. As of today, Disney does not charge extra for FP. So why bother bringing it up, other than to add more gasoline to the fire? It's beyond resonable. And then topping it all off with snide remarks doesn't exactly add weight to your arguments; if anything it just makes you look like a raving lunatic.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>you're making hypothetical arguments<<< Disney doesn't charge for FastPass. There's no reason to expect that it will happen anytime soon. Nonetheless, you think the pay-for-it version is fine. I don't. >>>if anything it just makes you look like a raving lunatic.<<< OK, so if I'm a raving lunatic and you're spending your time arguing with me, then that must make you something even worse, right? Besides, I can really bust a move when I get into my moon dance each night. It's very cleansing. You should try it too, I think you would like it. You know, this has been fun. I hope all you lurkers out there have been enjoying this as much as I, but unfortunately sometimes, real life gets in the way. So, I may not be able to respond as quickly as I have been over the last several days for a while, but I'll still be around. Don't miss me too much trekkeruss.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<so if I'm a raving lunatic and you're spending your time arguing with me, then that must make you something even worse, right?>> I am a lunatic. That said, I am not the one trying to find every reason to hate FP. I hate that you basically can't eat at at a Disney restaurant of your choice without either making a resrevation months in advance, or waiting on a stand-by list for hours on end. But that's the way it is, and I suck it up and deal with it. I'm not going to spend a lot of energy thinking about everything that is wrong with the system.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <But that's the way it is, and I suck it up and deal with it. I'm not going to spend a lot of energy thinking about everything that is wrong with the system.> Again, I think it's a fascinating discussion. Sure, you might think that using Walt Disney in his point is silly or out-of-date. I disagree. It's good for a company to look back at it's founder, and use his philosophies as a litmus test of sorts -- just to see if the idea or particular piece of the company is working properly. With Disney -- they've had to change their feathers over the years. And sure, all companies do to stay competitive or lean or whatever. All I'm suggesting, is that a company, like Disney, has to be careful with things like FastPass. Sure, the argument here seems to suggest that 'most' people don't notice. Right. I've heard that before when it comes to details of rides, design elements of new parks, Disney hotel room interiors and all the rest. 'Most' people don't notice. But there was a time, in the not so distant past, that Disney used to build attractions, hotels, restaurants, guest amenities, with an eye on serving the guests and on an overall blanket of quality -- regardless of 'most' people. To me, that's the bigger part of the FastPass discussion. And that's what makes it an interesting discussion. It's how FastPass, along with many other elements of the Disney theme park experience, help to create a frenetic, fast-paced, run-like-a-chicken-with-your-head-cut-off visit to the parks.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>To me, that's the bigger part of the FastPass discussion. And that's what makes it an interesting discussion. It's how FastPass, along with many other elements of the Disney theme park experience, help to create a frenetic, fast-paced, run-like-a-chicken-with-your-head-cut-off visit to the parks.<< Yes indeed! Instead of a more relaxing pace, it becomes a Theme Park Commando experience. Tempers get short. People get stressed. Some people feel like other people are "getting an edge" over them. Most of the time, I opt out of that. Even when we recently went to Florida for our first visit to teh parks there, knowing that it might be my only visit for quite some time, I didn't get into the Fastpass Marathon. Instead, we meandered. Didn't see everything. But what we DID see, we took our time with and enjoyed. To me, it's the difference between wolfing down your food compared with savoring it. We spent several minutes watching a movie director character at Disney's Hollywood Studios "directing" the crowds walking past. It was hilarious. We watched a 10 minute performance by an amazing street performer in Italy in World Showcase. If we'd have been rushing around scoring Fastpasses for Test Track, we'd have missed it.
