Originally Posted By Mr X ***Strict enforcement of a FastPass cut-off time is not currently doable at WDW.*** Sure it is. ***It's not realistic to think that you can just tell a guest that his FastPass has expired.*** It's totally realistic. The time the pass is useful is printed right there on the front, in bold print no less. ***At least when he tried to get in early the CM can say come back later, but now you are telling him that it's game over.*** How about telling them to read the little ticket next time? ***It's also a problem about which I don't mind doing a little screaming.*** If complaining online makes you happy, go for it. Don't expect any major changes though. Most people are cool with fastpass. ***the point right now is -- it's not happening*** I'm not entirely sure why it's not happening right now, honestly, but the fact is the rules are printed right there on the little ticket. Unless the excuse is that they're not literate, there's no reason whatsoever that fastpasses *must* be honored after they've expired. ***I'm NOT advocating unrealistic enforcement of FastPass time windows.*** I am. If it has become a problem. And why not? It's not as though anyone pays for the things. And in most cases (outside of TDL, I mean) it's no investment whatsoever. It takes less than 5 minutes to obtain one, if that. It's also a problem about which I don't mind doing a little screaming.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys My solution has always been to limit each guest to two FP's a day.Over the course of a 5 day stay it would allow guests to get on to 10 attractions that they really want to experience and wait in line or skip the attractions that they are less interested in. It would also add a new dimension to vacation planning,which is half the fun. I know someone will find "holes" in this approach, but I think it will free up a lot of wait times at most of the attractions. Come to think of it, it would almost be a throw back to when we used to have tickets for the attractions.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I know someone will find "holes" in this approach, but I think it will free up a lot of wait times at most of the attractions.<< Fast Pass isn't causing the long lines at the attractions, the huge crowds are. IMO, for every hour in a line, FP only adds 10 or 15 minutes to the wait. Just because you get rid of Fast Pass doesn't mean the lines are going to magically disappear.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 If we guests take it back did FastPass promise it won't harm us again?<< The topic makes it seem like Fast Pass needs to take some anger management classes...
Originally Posted By DAR I've been down there twice with FastPass in place and can honestly say I've never had a problem with it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Fast Pass isn't causing the long lines at the attractions, the huge crowds are.*** This is something I've been mulling over, William, since the start of this thread. I think that perhaps the issue isn't so much with fastpass and how much it sucks, but more to the point that the parks are crowded a lot (and the original poster even said so!). If so, there's not much that can be done EXCEPT, if Disney really valued quality over quantity, to start decreasing what "maximum capacity" really means and close the parks down before they get too full.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>***I'm NOT advocating unrealistic enforcement of FastPass time windows.*** I am. If it has become a problem.<<< Good luck with that, Mr. X. I'm sure you would give it a good shot if it was up to you. Like I said, though, that's not my main concern. If Disney considers it a problem to be fixed then they should do it. It's an issue they've created for themselves. >>>I think that perhaps the issue isn't so much with fastpass and how much it sucks, but more to the point that the parks are crowded a lot (and the original poster even said so!). If so, there's not much that can be done EXCEPT, if Disney really valued quality over quantity, to start decreasing what "maximum capacity" really means and close the parks down before they get too full.<<< Yes, the crowds are a big part of the problem with FastPass! That should be clear by now. The problem is not that Disney is allowing too many people in the park despite whatever discomfort it causes me. Why does everyone want to try to prove that I'm really just upset with the guests and not FastPass? No. As I said, FastPass is a ride reservation system, but it strains under the burden of large crowds. The total number of people in the park does not change as a result of FastPass. The solution is to fix or dump FastPass, not to dump people. OK? Can we get past this, please. Mr. X, you advocate a draconian enforcement of the ticket times. OK, that's one possible solution -- mostly likely the one Disney actually intended originally. However, CMs aren't doing it, probably because they just can't and/or have been told not to do it. So, right there is glaring evidence that there is a problem with FastPass. I don't really see arguing with people over their tickets as the best way to handle the situation. I'm more concerned with preserving the flow of the stand-by line in the event of screw-ups like people rushing the FastPass queue with expired tickets. I don't want to see FastPass create a sense of entitlement to the holder to ride at the expense of those in stand-by. Everyone gives up a little bit to get a few minimized waits, but it's wrong to stop standby riders for 30 minutes while you let a parade of FastPass holders onto a ride. Is it really so hard to see the problem that creates?
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "If so, there's not much that can be done EXCEPT, if Disney really valued quality over quantity, to start decreasing what "maximum capacity" really means and close the parks down before they get too full." Actually they have another option - increase the ability of the park to handle large crowds by adding more attractions. This is what Disney would have done in the old days - but since we no longer pay for each attraction individually, Disney doesn't really have any incentive to increase the attraction count at parks like EPCOT or the MK. It's really sort of sad when you think about it - sure, paying one price for everything has made a day at the parks easier, but Disney has lost most of the incentive to create more attractions for us to buy. Instead, the incentive is to cram as many people as possible into the parks, and keep them out of lines so they can shop and eat.
Originally Posted By barboy "What are you talking about?" you're right.... I was talking about WDW and you(now that I read more carefully) were talking about just the parks.
Originally Posted By Liberty Belle >>With FastPass, there is no doubt that the "preferred" guest has a shorter wait. That is the premise of the entire system.<< But everyone has the chance to be a preferred guest at one time or another. No, not all the time, but no one gets it "all" the time (in other words, everyone gets an equal chance). When Mum did Single Rider at Soarin' last year, the guy at the front of the 'normal' queue assumed she was Fastpass and was incredibly rude and sarcastic to her. Well, if it was such a big deal to him that people with Fastpasses (which she wasn't anyway) didn't get in front of him, why didn't he just get a Fastpass or stop complaining? I can't believe someone would actually confront a middle-aged woman about something like that, and in front of his young kids, too. With the Big Thunder situation, is it possible that the ride had been broken down earlier in the day and that's why so many people were returning at once? We had Fastpasses for Space Mountain at DL on our last trip and when we returned to use them they told us the ride was broken down. We explained we had Fastpasses and they said they would honour them for the rest of the day, so to come back again later, which we did. Aside from that situation, we *never* use Fastpass after the time window has expired, and we've had some FPs go to waste when we ended up being too late. It's just how it works and I don't think they should accept them after the hour is up (and didn't even realise that they did). I don't have a problem with the Fastpass system, but I do have a problem with them accepting expired passes. >>It's not realistic to think that you can just tell a guest that his FastPass has expired.<< I don't see why not. That's why it has an expiry time on it. If they came back a day later, would they be allowed to use it? I doubt it - so why would they if they come back 4 hours later?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Mr. X, you advocate a draconian enforcement of the ticket times.*** lol. I suppose if you consider expecting people to actually follow the times printed on the ticket "draconian". And anyway, I'm not really. It can be handled on a case by case basis. It wouldn't hurt if the CM's asked some questions, as they do in Tokyo. Right now, they just take the tickets no matter what it seems. And I do feel there is a difference between someone who shows up 30 minutes past the designated time because they got stuck on a ride or had slow priority seating, in comparison to people who just stroll in hours later "because they can".
Originally Posted By Mr X ***but it's wrong to stop standby riders for 30 minutes while you let a parade of FastPass holders onto a ride. Is it really so hard to see the problem that creates?*** No, it's easy to see that as a problem. The only real question is, how widespread is it really? I've been to Disney parks all around the world quite often, and I honestly don't recall one single instance where the actual wait was significantly longer than the posted wait time. I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, or that it doesn't occasionally happen. But to get all bent out of shape and say "even ONCE is too much!" is really taking it a little too far imo.
Originally Posted By mousermerf I see lots of "Blah blah blah" and very few people who actually know what they're talking about. Fastpass cutoffs are enforced at the attractions that need to enforce them. It is entirely up to the management of the attraction based on their trends and how it effects the operation. For example Soarin has a history of being a strict cut-off as does Test Track during peak periods. Also this whole "line moved so slow, blah blah, i saw them let FP people in before me, blah blah" stuff is silly. Except on the absolute peak days (and Soarin or Test Track) there is still FP available at FP attractions until late in the day. If you chose not to use it, you chose to wait. FP distributes X-number of tickets per window keeping at roughly 45mins ahead of the current time at minimum. On slow days it's right at this window, meaning fewer FP go out then theorhetically could, on busy days it's to the max. About letting FP people in - there's a ratio CMs are trained for. Did you even consider that the ride may of been broken down all morning? All those FP people were guaranteed a ride when it reopened, and standby will do just that - standby. And should it have been out of FP tickets at that time, that's a sure sign it broke down that morning. Anyone who has a FP had to get to the attraction before you. They didn't order them up from their hotel room, they didn't have Disney deliver them ona golden platter, they didn't write their congressman. They walked their happy butt to the attraction and put a ticket in the slot. You want perks, get out of bed. You want to complain about your darling children slowing you down and keeping you from getting on rides? Fine. There's a guidebook. Called the Unofficial Guide. They specialize in touring plans o the parks - they include ones for people showing up in the afternoon. they calculate how to get on every ride without a wait and they have several different plans going in all kinds of orders. Most folks call it the WDW bible - have you heard of it? It's at libraries for free. Are you going to goto England and complain you can't ride the London Eye because you didn't make a reservation? Complain you can't get into nice restaurants in France without a reservation? The day i got my passport papers done there were people in there wanting it the next day to leave for their trip. I had mine processed in 3 days by a expediting service. I researched, i bothered to get the information, i had mine in that time so i could book a last minute flight to Europe. The other people? They sat there complaining - oblivious to there being a solution. There is a solution, it's called getting out of bed and getting your crap together. Don't want to do it? Wait in line then.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>When Mum did Single Rider at Soarin' last year, the guy at the front of the 'normal' queue assumed she was Fastpass and was incredibly rude and sarcastic to her.<<< The guest who reacted that way was exceedingly rude. There is no excuse for one guest to behave towards another guest in such a way over FastPass or single rider lines. My posts have not been directed at discouraging guests from using FastPass, or even from redeeming late FastPasses. I have, however, advocated setting a strict limitation on the ride resources devoted to FastPass in order to prevent the entire ride from being devoted to FastPass guests for significant chunks of time. On Sunday, the rule for a time at Big Thunder Mountain was "keep FastPass from backing up no matter what the cost." To stop the stand-by line is too high a cost. >>>With the Big Thunder situation, is it possible that the ride had been broken down earlier in the day and that's why so many people were returning at once?<<< I don't know. But regardless of whether it was closed for a while or people went away for a time because of some rain, the fact remains that what I experienced happened, and there needs to be some kind of safeguard against it. >>>I don't see why not. That's why it has an expiry time on it. If they came back a day later, would they be allowed to use it? I doubt it - so why would they if they come back 4 hours later?<<< Well, as with Mr. X, if you want to take that stance, OK. But then you have to ask yourself why a cut-off isn't being enforced. If it is, I don't see it. I see people being turned away all the time for being too early. There's always someone trying to get in early at nearly every FastPass queue. I've never seen anyone turned away for being too late. >>>lol. I suppose if you consider expecting people to actually follow the times printed on the ticket "draconian".<<< LOL! No, I'm not sure what to think of the expectation other than unrealistic. However, turning CMs into FastPass Nazis is not a great solution. NO ride for you! Come back...three days! >>>I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, or that it doesn't occasionally happen. But to get all bent out of shape and say "even ONCE is too much!" is really taking it a little too far imo.<<< OK. I'm not going to challenge your judgment of my actions. Go ahead and think what you want. I reached the point on Sunday where I decided something needed to be said. So, I'm saying it. What happened that day crossed the line for me, and I'm coming down hard on it. I decided where to take my stand, and this is it. If the issue for you is really that you like FastPass and don't want to see it scrapped, then that's even more reason to support the kind of control I've suggested to prevent FastPass from hogging the entire ride. Yes, it might cause FastPass to back-up a bit when there's a rush for whatever reason, but at least the FastPass queue has to cope with its own load. You obviously already agree to some extent because you want to enforce the FastPass window. Perhaps you can go along with me at least that far?
Originally Posted By magnet >>>There is a solution, it's called getting out of bed and getting your crap together. Don't want to do it? Wait in line then.<<< Ya vol, Herr Kommandant! You should really read the thread before posting. Much of what you said doesn't speak to my complaint at all. Also all of this stuff about complicated ratios and computer programs to spit out the tickets is a bunch of garbage. When Disney starts enforcing the system that they actually have in place, then I'll listen about ratios and computer algorithms. Until then, it's a load of bull.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Actually it does address your problem quite well. Other people got to the ride before you. They get to ride first. That's all there is to it. There's no "shouldn't happen" - they got there first. they ride first. That's how it works. You're not happy with that and refuse to do anything to put yourself in the "got there first" group and want to skip ahead of people who were responsible and got there before you. First come first serve, you came last.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>That's all there is to it. There's no "shouldn't happen" - they got there first. they ride first. That's how it works. You're not happy with that and refuse to do anything to put yourself in the "got there first" group and want to skip ahead of people who were responsible and got there before you. First come first serve, you came last.<<< OK, the other aspect of this discussion that keeps surfacing is that, "If I have a FastPass, I have priveleges above those without one." This is the type of dangerous thinking that is spoiling the whole system and that I'm finally fed up with. The type of response I get for speaking against it from someone who feels this way is that I'm just lazy. See, here it is again -- I'm less of a guest because I don't have a FastPass, and really it sounds more like I'm less of a person. That's very disturbing to see this system twist people's minds in such a way. When you get a FastPass, you reserve an opportunity to wait in a smaller queue for the attraction. That's it. There should be no coupling or competition between stand-by and FastPass! That's why I don't get angry about guests using FastPass. A certain amount of the ride's capacity is devoted to moving FastPass guests through. As FastPass usage shrinks, more capacity can revert to stand-by. As the FastPass usage increases, then FastPass can resume its allotted capacity. However, now here's where the problem comes in -- the capacity given to FastPass should terminate at a specific boundary. It should not be allowed to grow without bound and consume all the ride's resources. This is where I have a problem with how FastPass was being operated on Sunday. It's not just a matter of well this happened once, but how often does it really occur? The root of the problem is that the way Disney is operating FastPass shows me that they're buying into the idea of one set of riders getting through at the expense of others. That probably occurs because of the pressure they experience if the FastPass queue gets clogged. Nevertheless, that pressure comes from a false sense of entitlement by the guest with the FastPass that he/she has priveleges over those in the stand-by queue. Disney needs a solid plan for operating FastPass that doesn't cave in if a few guests start screaming because they had to wait ten minutes in a FastPass queue on a busy day. Come up with a plan that doesn't reinforce a sense of entitlement to FastPass holders and then stick to it.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys FP = train ticket. If you're not there on time the train pulls away without you whether you got stuck in traffic, had a slow waitress or got sick.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Disney needs a solid plan for operating FastPass that doesn't cave in if a few guests start screaming because they had to wait ten minutes in a FastPass queue on a busy day.>> So instead they should have a solid plan for operating FastPass that doesn't cave in if a few guests start screaming because they had to wait ten minutes more in the standby queue on a busy day? Because basically that is what you are advocating.
