Originally Posted By danyoung >I beg to disagree with this one - we are both APs, and with the alternate gifts, we are either looking at $150 for merchandise, or getting a couple of passes to use for guests. Both circumstances mean Disney is out some money.< Yes, you are correct in this. What I meant to indicate is that Disney is going to have many many people visiting because of the birthday giveaway that would not otherwise be visiting the parks on that day. The extra that they make up in family and friends buying admission, everyone eating and buying souvenirs will more than make up for whatever they will have to give away to AP'ers.
Originally Posted By LadyKluck This is awesome for our family because DH and I have the same birthday - so that's 2 of us getting in free on the same day (3 if you count my son who will be 2 in 2009). So if we do end up going for our birthday, on that day anyways we'll be paying admission for a 3 year old - and that's it!!
Originally Posted By nats 31 Disney is not doing us a favor. How many people can arrange to visit on their birthday, just to save on a one day pass? It looks good on paper but it is not going to cost Disney much money. The only ones that can visit whenever they want are Florida residents, and they already get discounts on their passes.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The only ones that can visit whenever they want are Florida residents...< Nonsense. I live in Dallas and visit WDW twice a year. My birthday is at the end of September, and I can easily arrange to come down at that time if I wish. In fact, I do just that about every other year, trading off between that and an early December visit. I'm sure many folks will do the same. And I'm totally sure that the locals will take advantage of this. Just because it doesn't work for you, nats, doesn't mean that the plan has no value.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>That is more like for announcing a new park in China, or to announce they bought Coney Island. << Now purchasing Coney Island would have been cool. They could clean it up .. add lots of classic "Disney" touches. THAT would have been news: Disney theme park division to grow into the upper eastern seaboard .. by reinvigorating a historic landmark!
Originally Posted By oc_dean Some of the attractions due to be dismantled at DCA could have found new homes where they could have been better appreciated. Maliboomer, Jumpin Jelly Fish are just a tiny sampling of what could fit into a newly renovated Coney Island.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 while some may be able to arrange this like Danny - Florida residents willget the biggest bang out of this. For others wholive in Texas , or Illinois or Pennsylvania - mot ofus have kids. If the kids birthdays fall during the school year - very unlikely we can alter much to get there specificallyfor a birthday. I can tell youthe kids are in school sports and after the firt few grade levels it becomesmuch harder because the work - homework is much harder- especially by the time you get to high school. That is why people go during the summer-and spring break and holiday breaks. When one can go is largely affected by when the rest of the family can go. That doesn't mean the plan hasno value however- it does, but I do feel it affects the majority of visitors a lot less.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed. Great for those that can enjoy this, but we had a greater probability for enjoying the Year of a Million Dreams. All 4 of our birthdays are during school time. Shame Disney cannot just simply add attractions or new entertainment and market that instead of resorting to give aways.
Originally Posted By CMDad << Now purchasing Coney Island would have been cool. >> Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine ... You do know that Coney Island is NOT an amusement park, but a (mostly) residential neighborhood in Brooklyn which USED TO have a number of amusement parks, including my favorite as a kid, Steeplechase? Today, with the closing of Astroland, only one kiddie park remains ... along with the Cyclone roller coaster, the Wonder Wheel (from which Disney ripped off the Sun Wheel), and Keyspan Park, the home of the Brooklyn Cyclones (the low A farm team of the NY Mets.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "I am sorry but could this be more lame. I think the free birthday ticket is just a way to get people to come to the park who might not and spend money on tickets for the rest of the family. But here we go again another bogus "celebration"" Welcome to the WDC of the new Millenium where cellophane banners are cheaper to prouduce than new E tickets. Actually, it's beyond lame - especially when it's couched in secrecy and anticipated as a "huge announcement"!!!
Originally Posted By ChiMike Is any of this really surprising? A new marketing celebration was the obvious announcement. For the last 5 years I have been focusing on and preferring trips to DL. Now, having just come back from my first WDW-vacation in two plus years and taking into consideration the rumors of lackluster plans for WDW, that marketing post-Mendenhall is still in the driver's seat (loosely confirmed by this bland promotion), I am firmly in Dave's camp and really don't plan on another Disney Orlando vacation for quite some time.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>> CMDad Sun 9/21/2008 1:20p << Now purchasing Coney Island would have been cool. >> Okay, this is a pet peeve of mine ... <<<< Thanks for the correction. I've learned mostly about it when it WAS mostly an amusement park region. Through a series of _old_ photos and write ups. I've visited the state of New York a total of 2 times ... and this region was never in those trips. But _now_ that I have taken a closer look at it's more recent history ... it just makes me wonder why such a huge city like New York City is without some modern, and clean amusement park zone. The nearest is a Six Flags park in New Jersey. Which is a pretty far car drive from Manhattan. Seems for New Yorkers ... the only way to experience any "theme park" type of offerings .. you have to fly or travel some huge distance to see anything of value.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>"huge announcement"!!! 52 ChiMike Mon 9/22/2008 8:11p Is any of this really surprising?<< I need to start conditioning myself to believe that any time I read hype that starts to the ring of ...... "Huge Announcement!!!" .. has nothing to do with a possible new park, new land, or new ride. In fact ... did I miss anything newsworthy regarding EPCOT's 25 Silver Anniversary??? I haven't really peaked around the WDW section .. but am I to believe not much is happening for this landmark occasion? What about a "20th" for Disney/MGM Studios for next year? Isn't it Animal Kingdom's "10th" this year? Anyway ....... The last time the MK park got something big was Splash Mountain 16 years ago. The last time World Showcase in EPCOT got something new was the Norway Pavilion/The Maelstrom 19 years ago. I wish some attention was put in areas that haven't seen anything new for YEARS.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmmm, OC_Dean, I am a critic of WDW, but even that seems a little harsh. Epcot did get Mission Space, Soarin', Imagination MkIII, the refurb of the Seas, new movies in Canada and China, some significant retooling of the restaurants in Italy and China in the last 5 years.
Originally Posted By oc_dean oh ... I wasn't pointing out a lack of changes for Future World. And yes, it was time for those original (dated!) 1982 films to be replaced ..... but I think something SIGNIFICANT should be added .. as the last thing was way back in 1988. 20 years ago .. with the Norway pavilion. We've seen some concepts come and go: Swiss Pavilion, Mt. Fuji attraction for Japan, Africa pavilion, Russia pavilion. And half of these pavilions do not have an attraction. It seems unnatural to never revisit them with some attraction ideas. But you have to agree with me, the Magic Kingdom ... with nothing significant not since Splash Mountain in 1992 is a shame.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Indeed the MK is my least favorite Disney park I have been to because it is so neglected and milked. I find it too depressing when I know what awesomeness DLP and DL deliver. When we last went 20 mths ago, my fav attractions were in a really poor state (thankfully they have since refurbed HM and are working on Country Bears)
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Hmmmm, OC_Dean, I am a critic of WDW, but even that seems a little harsh. Epcot did get Mission Space, Soarin', Imagination MkIII, the refurb of the Seas, new movies in Canada and China, some significant retooling of the restaurants in Italy and China in the last 5 years.<< Mission Space was an expensive disaster for Disney. In part, it was to help Epcot compete with the thrills on International Drive. It is a poor attraction when judging it from Disney's own past design criteria and it (especially the queue/preshow) reeks of a postmodernism flair. Mission Space also has a greater relative track record in causing harm to guests. Soarin' a solid attraction at DCA is appropriate as an EPCOT Center attraction but its implementation is very poor. Between the poor placement and the incompetently designed traffic flow it leaves much to be desired. I will say it is the best addition to Epcot since Norway. However, I do find the attraction slightly overrated for what it is, a VR film. I also find the attraction area and queue to be too sterile and not very inspiring or epic; almost void of any emotional resonance. Imagination has been such a miserable experience for Disney I don't know what much else there is to say. As Spirit has mentioned for a few years, they are looking at bringing (10 years too late) a modern version of the original back. JIYI was one of the first examples of how terribly wrong WDI’s judgment had become. Where there were too many ill-qualified consultants and ‘artists’ roaming the halls of Glendale. The show writing has been marginalized to pitch sessions for Barney or the Power Rangers. From JIYI full circle to the recent script for SSE. Not a very good 8 years. Seas' redo is tough for me because I do have a principled problem with it at TLS, but practically speaking, it works. It works on many levels and in a vacuum far away from Epcot the attraction is good. Not sure if many remember my past rants, but I am no fan of film based attractions. I think Nemo is a subject matter that really, really benefits from what WDI has done in both WDW and DL. Additionally, the films work because they are integrated with fully realized sets; presented to guests while traveling linearly through a space. Other than my problem with its imposing presence on the TLS pavilion and Future World as a whole, I also will say the show writing, again, leaves ALOT to be desired. While understanding the technical challenges of using a submarine as a ride vehicle, I am less forgiving on how elementary the show writing is for an omnimover version of this ride. Too bad management reclaimed their sub-lagoon (perfectly located in Fantasyland) right before the concept gained traction out West. What a bunch of political maverks, eh? While I applaud the effort in updating both Canada's and China's films, I find both to be less powerful then what their predecessors circa 1982 where. Especially considering Canada's doesn't really utilize Circlevision. Martin Short? Weren't the same designers cracking jokes about how horribly dated Cranium Command was? Don’t get me wrong, I was not sad to see either film go. I could care less about O'Canada. I guess I was just foolish to expect more from WDI on either film. They only come from 50 years of theme park experience and 80 years of film-making. Add to the negative list: Magic Carpets, creating bottlenecks where none previously existed. Actually inflicting the MK with the problems of the DL adventureland. Does MK really need a third spinner? Dino-Rama, quite possibly the worst and most ill-placed addition since JIYI or DCA. A clear example of how bankrupt WDI was/is. Does WDW really need a fourth spinner? MILF, a very poor show. I was fortunate, or unfortunate, to see an early preview, and even with discounting technical issues, I will say the show has slightly improved from what I first saw. SGE, a very poor show with again very poor show writing. Not only is the writing bad, but the attraction almost has a personality disorder. Tone and theme change on a dime with no sense of setting, purpose, or resolution. Mexico, again horrible show writing combined with too much reliance on Claude Coats' environmental projections. Could've at least used some three dimensional sets or AAs near the end of the ride. Not too much to complain about considering what was originally there, but still a pretty lackluster installation, with almost a condescending approach towards the guest. SSE, quite possibly worse than I could have imagined. They significantly downgraded the attraction score, dumbed-down the script, completely mis-timed the narration, and lost any grasp on the structural "Acts" of the attraction and where the climax belongs. All of that in addition to the creatively insipid descent. MGM on its whole is pretty sorry. Both stunt shows are ho-hum and offer very little for what they cost to operate. Midway Mania is a tired concept imo, but I make no statement denying that it is popular and addictive for many of the guests. I am certainly in the minority on this one! I simply think on this WDI could have done much better. Like the descent in SSE or Mexico, this simply looks like they "settled" for the least common denominator. They took the easy road and it shows. They cashed in on a current fad and current guest temperament. Hardly a recipe for a classic attraction, an asset whose value increases year after year for the company. 8 years after Men In Black, 9 years after Spiderman and Buzz, I expected more from an institution that is so highly regarded that they can have multiple books and TV specials annually produced on the very notion on how great they are. The fact that the Yeti is completely disabled also confirms my notions towards WDI and current WDW management. Simply without excuse. Akin to the new Disneyland monorails. Things like this simply didn't happen in the golden years. The designers were more worried about producing a quality product (lightyears ahead of its time) than playing office politics, synergizing with the media, or getting the latest manuscript off to the publisher. Since 1999 I can't think of any addition of value to my personal WDW vacation other than perhaps Philharmagic and a restored Haunted Mansion (with one additional, well-done show scene). I found the parks ill equipped for the crowd level, park-wide capacity down, gutter-like food quality for the relative price, poorly groomed cast members who were not visibly pleasant. Poor merchandise options, inconvenient food options with poor service, dirty areas of the parks, worn areas of the parks, and inferior attractions to other Disney locales. The parks seem to still rely on too much entertainment which I believe is not the real reason the mainstream guest population pays what they pay to visit WDW. More benefits from staying at a Disney deluxe hotel seem to have quietly disappeared and I felt like the hotel staff cared very little that I was there and was a guest. More so than any other trip I felt that I was taken for granted by Disney and their employees. Sad to say I don’t think I was the only one. Resort transportation was overcrowded and poorly timed. I can go on and on. I can also cite specific examples if someone would like. I was hoping to see some magic return after being away for so long. Sure, I would pop in for a day here and there to check something out, but this is the first multi-day vacation dedicated to nothing but Disney for quite some time. The people who are currently running this property simply aren't doing what was thought necessary up until 1998. Let alone, the 80's or 70's. Their employment standards have dropped considerably even since 2001. At WDW, quality attractions seem to be as much of a relic as AAs. This is obviously an operation that is based on slick marketing and entertainment offerings which have questionable appeal. Great environments designed in the last thirty five years are relegated to mall facades. Instead it seems WDW's focus is on regimented services that distract one from those environments (and their condition) rather focusing the guest on FP times, free food, or general interactivity with handheld devices. Their pricing is out of control, which is obviously targeted at foreign guests. This alone leaves me little alternative but to keep focusing my spending at DLR where domestically I still see tremendous benefits and value. Ohh, and VBDad, I hope I finally get some credit on our past FP discussion. A while back you said that I was wrong in my statement of fairness. Now with Birthday FP being the first tiny step in tiered levels of FP use I hope you see the slippery slope I tried to point out two years ago.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo ChiMike I have mixed emotions about your post. On one level I am very sad that you felt like we did (hence why California and Paris will get our money), but on the other, I am glad I am not a crazy fool! I will say I really love Lights Motors Action, if the yeti worked, I would love EE, and I love Soarin'. Also, I think they improved the China Circlevision. But they have run everything into the ground so much, and cut so many corners, enough is enough. And Joe public going for 5 days every year or two do not notice it or don't care. And DVC owners try to find new ways so they don't experience buyers remorse. WDW is so huge and draw upon a huge demo that don't know any better (they have not experienced other Disney resorts) with few local visitors with power, they get away with it. Also, because Epcot and DAk are so different to Ca's offerings, i think the west coasters give it a pass too. for the UK, a lot of the rubes love the cheap prices of Fla and the fact it's warmer than the UK. Also food and clothes are much cheaper. They cannot seem to disassociate the trip to the US with a trip to WDW. And then some are thrill seekers, so they view their vacation as a mega park tour with 8 within easy reach of each other. For me, I am a Disney park fan, and I like quality over quantity. So DLP and DL get my love with a curiosity of WDW (probably a trip every 7 years on the cards, some tell me my timing was off).
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Ohh, and VBDad, I hope I finally get some credit on our past FP discussion. A while back you said that I was wrong in my statement of fairness. Now with Birthday FP being the first tiny step in tiered levels of FP use I hope you see the slippery slope I tried to point out two years ago. < I don't remember the exact discussion as there were so many, but I still believe FP in it's current state is fair, everyone has a fair shot to arrive in the AM. I however do agree that the birthday FP precedent I do not like - and I also previosuly stated I hated being able to 'pay for the privilege ' ala Uni or Six Flags. I think that is the wrong message. refresh me if I am off base here.
