Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt OMG!! I'm such a dork!! That's my Huge Announcement!!! (like noone noticed b4)
Originally Posted By leobloom I appreciate that they're giving away free 1-day 1-park tickets, but it would have been mcuh more impressive if they had done this 10 or 15 years ago when the parks were in peak condition. Now, not so much, and the sad thing is they have nothing on the horizon to drum up interest. It's a pretty boring time in WDW history...
Originally Posted By dshyates "It's a pretty boring time in WDW history..." Have you forgotten about American Idol: Sing it!!!!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The fact that the Yeti is completely disabled also confirms my notions towards WDI and current WDW management. Simply without excuse. Akin to the new Disneyland monorails. Things like this simply didn't happen in the golden years. The designers were more worried about producing a quality product (lightyears ahead of its time) than playing office politics, synergizing with the media, or getting the latest manuscript off to the publisher.>> Mike, you have an amazing knack for nailing the points that need to be said. I just admit to not understanding how WDI has gone from Dream Factory to bloated, seemingly clueless, political boys club. <<The people who are currently running this property simply aren't doing what was thought necessary up until 1998. Let alone, the 80's or 70's. Their employment standards have dropped considerably even since 2001.>> Well, ultimately it starts with the resort's 'leadership' team. The execs are by and large not very good to say the least. Ordinary would be a great word. I think most average Disney fans would be surprised at how marginal these people are. It also doesn't matter that many execs have come up through the Disney ranks because it is obvious they have advanced via much brownnosing and the like instead of due to talent or ability. Then couple that with the fact EVIL MARKETING is in control of how WDW is truly run and you just have a product that is all about hawking the 'DISNEY MAGIC' (wish i could figure out how to get that little 'c' for copyright here) instead of creating magical experiences for guests. <<At WDW, quality attractions seem to be as much of a relic as AAs. This is obviously an operation that is based on slick marketing and entertainment offerings which have questionable appeal. Great environments designed in the last thirty five years are relegated to mall facades.>> Well, look at Main Street in the MK where the entire place is basically meaningless facades that conceal a giant World of Disney crap outlet. It's very sad when Disney created themed entertainment and the average upscale mall can now out-Disney, Disney. <<Instead it seems WDW's focus is on regimented services that distract one from those environments (and their condition) rather focusing the guest on FP times, free food, or general interactivity with handheld devices.>> Destination Disney anyone? <<Their pricing is out of control, which is obviously targeted at foreign guests. This alone leaves me little alternative but to keep focusing my spending at DLR where domestically I still see tremendous benefits and value.>> I live a three hour drive or 22-minute flight from WDW yet I haven't been there in six months. In that time I've been to DL/DCA twice and HKDL once. What does that tell you?
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Mike, you have an amazing knack for nailing the points that need to be said.<< Thanks for the great compliment Spirit. And likewise; it was fascinating reading your thoughts on HKDL. >>I just admit to not understanding how WDI has gone from Dream Factory to bloated, seemingly clueless, political boys club.<< As in? You don't believe they have? Or, that you are shocked at their regression (even knowing the history)? >>Well, ultimately it starts with the resort's 'leadership' team. The execs are by and large not very good to say the least. Ordinary would be a great word. I think most average Disney fans would be surprised at how marginal these people are.<< I will get on my Judson Green soapbox one more time and say that at least up through the end of his tenure Burbank left the Florida folks alone. After Paul was promoted (in accordance with DIG's wishes >grin<) it got a little bit worse, but nothing compared to what Jay and Al Weiss did with the executive restructuring and McParks concept. Inept local management with little to no ability to react & adapt to the day to day localized issues & trends is the result. A smart guy with a huge fast-passed future like Matt Quiment does not jump ship just for money or because he was homesick. >>It also doesn't matter that many execs have come up through the Disney ranks because it is obvious they have advanced via much brownnosing and the like instead of due to talent or ability.<< IMO, and only IMO, this has been the M.O. since EuroDisney/Well's Death/Eisner surgery. It just takes a few years for it to show up on the radar and show it-did by the time of the late 90's. >>Then couple that with the fact EVIL MARKETING is in control of how WDW is truly run and you just have a product that is all about hawking the 'DISNEY MAGIC' (wish i could figure out how to get that little 'c' for copyright here) instead of creating magical experiences for guests.<< Marketing's influence, role, and self-idealized importance is first and foremost the biggest current problem at WDP&R. At least with Paul the fetish was something tangible with retail and merchandise. Where with Paul, everyone wanted to send him a poster for his office saying "It's the attractions!" I don't think many would know where to start with this cracker-jack team. That, imo, is closely followed by the importance given to WDP&R Entertainment, and, frankly, the tastes, preferences, and judgment held by >most< WDP&R decsion makers. >>It's very sad when Disney created themed entertainment and the average upscale mall can now out-Disney, Disney.<< One look in Vegas, Dubai, Asia, etc. will display that. Don't have enough money to check out overseas? Go the mall at Caeser's Palace. Look at Harry Potter/IOA. Stay a night at Royal Pacfic to see the better service a medium caliber resort employs towards their guests. Go to one of our country's museums. Heck, former WED designers helped with the Lincoln museum in Springfield, IL. Disney (WDP&R) has certainly diminished their core compentency due to a number of internal and external factors. Can't really cry about it now; my issue is, "what are they actively doing to get back to their innovative, trend-setting, legacy? Is it even a current concern or goal?"
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Thanks for the great compliment Spirit. And likewise; it was fascinating reading your thoughts on HKDL.>> Thanks back at you! I'm glad to hear you read my HKDL observations and opinions ... I wasn't sure many folks had noticed it as the HKDL board gets about as much action as the park gets bodies in it! Although I do KNOW that Jay Rasulo has taken note of it, which fills me with an intense warmth and feeling of joy because there really is a lot I could teach him. I do plan on finishing the thread at some point soon since I haven't even talked about the hotels yet. >>I just admit to not understanding how WDI has gone from Dream Factory to bloated, seemingly clueless, political boys club.<< <<As in? You don't believe they have? Or, that you are shocked at their regression (even knowing the history)?>> No ... it's more of the latter, fer sure. It's like I was thinking a few days ago at DL when riding Pirates 'why could WED do this over four decades ago yet today's WDI struggles with just the basics?' WDI needs a giant enema and some fresh blood ... of course, it still all goes to Rasulo since Jay dictates largely what will and won't come to the parks. I still sit back in mock amazement that the MK hasn't had a significant new attraction added since 1992. This is (supposedly) the No. 1 visited theme park in the world (I still don't believe that but ...). This is supposedly the flagship park and what is it offering? The same stale, dumbed down experiences (yes, with the exception of the great work done on refreshing the Mansion). It seems that WDW's future business plan is all about DVC ... all about hard-ticket parties ... all about marketing magic over magical substance. In other words, just more WalMarting ... I'm sure we can all get excited that they killed Pleasure Island but yet we get a Rainforest Cafe with dinos a 5-minute walk from a Rainforest Cafe. >>Well, ultimately it starts with the resort's 'leadership' team. The execs are by and large not very good to say the least. Ordinary would be a great word. I think most average Disney fans would be surprised at how marginal these people are.<< <<I will get on my Judson Green soapbox one more time and say that at least up through the end of his tenure Burbank left the Florida folks alone. After Paul was promoted (in accordance with DIG's wishes >grin<) it got a little bit worse, but nothing compared to what Jay and Al Weiss did with the executive restructuring and McParks concept. Inept local management with little to no ability to react & adapt to the day to day localized issues & trends is the result. A smart guy with a huge fast-passed future like Matt Quiment does not jump ship just for money or because he was homesick.>> Matt was forced out because he coveted Jay's job and was liked by John Lasseter. There was a fear that he'd push Jay out, so he had to go. But if you look at most of the park execs you see a mix of retreads (much like baseball managers that have been a the helm of 5-6 teams -- and failed at most) along with some outsiders that have come to the company since the old guard was forced out by Eisner in the 90s. The one thing they seem to have in common (well other than insecurity like a high school kid with acne trying to get some) is a PROFOUND lack of respect for the past and a PROFOUND lack of understanding for the product they are selling. >>It also doesn't matter that many execs have come up through the Disney ranks because it is obvious they have advanced via much brownnosing and the like instead of due to talent or ability.<< <<IMO, and only IMO, this has been the M.O. since EuroDisney/Well's Death/Eisner surgery. It just takes a few years for it to show up on the radar and show it-did by the time of the late 90's.>> Oh, I totally agree. It's why a mindless dolt like Karl Holz goes from a mid-level food and beverage manager at WDW's DD in the mid-90s to EPCOT VP to Sr. VP of all Florida parks then head of the DCL then head of DLP all in less than a decade. It's so bizarre that people so ordinary just march up the ladder with no real reason for doing so except they are very good at political gamesmanship. >>Then couple that with the fact EVIL MARKETING is in control of how WDW is truly run and you just have a product that is all about hawking the 'DISNEY MAGIC' (wish i could figure out how to get that little 'c' for copyright here) instead of creating magical experiences for guests.<< <<Marketing's influence, role, and self-idealized importance is first and foremost the biggest current problem at WDP&R. At least with Paul the fetish was something tangible with retail and merchandise. Where with Paul, everyone wanted to send him a poster for his office saying "It's the attractions!" I don't think many would know where to start with this cracker-jack team. That, imo, is closely followed by the importance given to WDP&R Entertainment, and, frankly, the tastes, preferences, and judgment held by >most< WDP&R decsion makers.>> What can I say ... other than 'You're right.' >>It's very sad when Disney created themed entertainment and the average upscale mall can now out-Disney, Disney.<< <<One look in Vegas, Dubai, Asia, etc. will display that. Don't have enough money to check out overseas? Go the mall at Caeser's Palace. Look at Harry Potter/IOA. Stay a night at Royal Pacfic to see the better service a medium caliber resort employs towards their guests. Go to one of our country's museums. Heck, former WED designers helped with the Lincoln museum in Springfield, IL. Disney (WDP&R) has certainly diminished their core compentency due to a number of internal and external factors. Can't really cry about it now; my issue is, "what are they actively doing to get back to their innovative, trend-setting, legacy? Is it even a current concern or goal?">> That's the billion dollar question. It's not that I don't see positives, I do. Hell, you read for yourself that I really enjoyed HKDL a lot. And that was a park that was designed to be a Disneyland facade really ... with lots of places to take pictures because you know marketing and PR says the Chinese really want to pay to go into a theme park just to take photos! Unfortunately, I'm starting to wonder about Bob Iger's abilities in general. When he took over in 2005, the only way Disney could go was up. He's been given a lot of slack because so many people so reviled Michael in his last 6-7 years. But Disney isn't getting things done in China on all fronts, despite the spin. And when you hear small-time things like 'We're closing/moving our flagship NYC WoD store because the rent is too high' or 'We don't have anything new to offer you next year, so we'll let you come in for free on your B-Day (not that I think this is a bad idea in principle)' ... or 'We're going to build all of these new things at DCA but we won't tell you when they'll open because we're really concerned about the economy' etc ... I just wonder ... what IS the longterm vision for P&Rs? Heck, I wonder IF there's a vision at all beyond selling timeshares.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Hey Spirit, I read you HKD posts, and was very impressed with your approach. It started like you were the student asking for help/advice eager to learn. Being the excellent learner you are, you advanced quickly to being the teacher. No smiley face attached, I am being serious here.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Thanks for the kind words, bobbelee, and don't be shy about posting down on the HKDL board. And I am serious here! I really enjoyed the park a great deal, and more than I expected to. Now, I'm even hankering to go back because of the amazing stuff they are doing for Halloween (check out Micechat.com's HKDL board for some great pics). It's very hard to sum up my feelings on HKDL without sounding like a walking contradiction because I love much of what is there but absolutely loathe the lack of signature attractions and the people who made the very poor decision to not include them and build so very little at the start.
Originally Posted By danyoung Hey Mike, I'm not going to get in the middle of your and '74's crankfest, as you're doing just fine on your own. But I have to ask you this - >A smart guy with a huge fast-passed future like Matt Quiment...< Is this just a joke on your part? Cuz you know it's not Quiment, it's Ouimet, right? Right?
Originally Posted By ChiMike Shoot. Yes I do. Hey, no one is perfect. Typing too fast. Thanks for pointing that out, it ranks up there with Rhode.
Originally Posted By danyoung Thanks, Mike. Ouimet. Rohde. Walt. Dan. Just wanted to make sure I had all the important names spelled correctly.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I'm not going to get in the middle of your and '74's crankfest,<< So .. uhh .. you don't think he has some valid points to make about the company?
Originally Posted By danyoung Well, yes, I do think some important points are being made. I also think that it gets old hearing the same tired arguments over and over again, especially when I'm 3 weeks away from a WDW vacation that I'm very much looking forward to.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And I hope you have a great time, I think taking a car is a big part of making for a better experience, though we should be able to rely on Disney transport.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >> I also think that it gets old hearing the same tired arguments over and over again<< For me Dan, they aren't tired arguments. They are up-to-date observations reinforced by recently visiting the property after being away from both WDW and here on lp.com. Additionally, in regards to this recent celebration, it was just announced. Just applying a little history to current events, you know.. >>especially when I'm 3 weeks away from a WDW vacation that I'm very much looking forward to. << I've never seen you not display a strong personality, with a reputation for independent thought. You know as they say, you can always change the channel. Enjoy your trip, I hope it won't be ruined with Mannequins being closed. >>I also think that it gets old hearing the same tired arguments over and over again<< And, Dan, I don't know if it is a joke on your part, but you do know that you are 'reading' the same tired arguments... not 'hearing' them? right? Right?
Originally Posted By danyoung >And, Dan, I don't know if it is a joke on your part, but you do know that you are 'reading' the same tired arguments... not 'hearing' them? right? Right?< Touche. >For me Dan, they aren't tired arguments. They are up-to-date observations reinforced by recently visiting the property after being away from both WDW and here on lp.com.< Of course everyone has the right to say what they want to say. But there are times when it gets to be altogether too much of the same thing. And your arguments may be fresh to you, but to me it just seems to be more of the same. I don't really mean that to be as insulting as it sounds - it's just the way I'm perceiving what I'm reading. And '74 has been totally relentless in his WDW bashing since his recent re-emergence. I've long enjoyed his contributions to this and other boards. But he's approaching that mythical status that Al Lutz had back when DCA opened, where he could not say anything without a bash in there somewhere ("Well, DL's Haunted Mansion has gotten some well deserved freshening up - too bad they can't do anything with that hole across the concourse"). At the risk of offending you and my longtime friend the Spirit, I guess I'm just not very receptive to the downer arguments right now.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Maybe the downer arguement would not be as prevelent if Disney did something about it!
