Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Especially as many of the issues are actually quick and easy fixes as long as the financial sustainability model and business case were worked up and approved.
Originally Posted By danyoung dave, I agree with you in that Disney needs to do something about the problems being mentioned. But the fact is at this time with the corporate culture firmly entrenched within Disney, it just ain't going to happen, at least not very quickly. I'm all for pointing out the foibles as well as the successes. I just have a hard time when every post out of some people is the same totally negative drumbeating. Maybe Mike and '74 (and you?) want to start a thread where you can have at it. What gets old is that just about every time someone posts something exciting about their upcoming trip, someone else will point out how they're not really getting what they used to get and they're getting screwed by the mouse and how dumb are we all for wasting our money in such a fruitless endeavor. Take a look back at '74's posts over the past week. I don't think there's been a single one that hasn't had something negative in it. And for me, as someone who spends a lot of time online yacking about his love of the parks, it gets tiresome. dave, '74, ChiMike, I respect your writings and your knowledge and your desire to see something better coming out of the parks. I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't need to be reminded of it with every post.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yep, but it is soooo annoying when the leadership team do not sort it out. also I have hopes that instead of going to WDW for the millionth time, people may opt to try the others. I try to be careful. If it's a newbie, I try to just be positive, or careful in the way I say things. If they are people I have "known" for years like you and many here, I speak my mind. When we pay more for the experience, I expect at least the same standard of quality. If I don't like it, rather than turn my back, I try to speak out in order to encourage others to do likewise. But there are some UKers on this board who have never even try DLP and yet go to WDW all the time, it really gets to me because I would like them to try what DLP offers. I also know Disney read many of these boards, so if I am able to express why I am dissatisfied, and they see a downturn on revenues or non qualifiable guest satisfaction surveys, I hope they put 2 and 2 together and sort it out. If we just had a moan fest board, then it would not be read. By trying to be fair (calling out the good (new enhancements to Innoventions), the bad (the reduction of so many things) and the Ugly (ok, I'll try to go here), maybe we will see some changes in the right direction. But it's true, WDW is the most expensive and biggest resort, but iMHO offers a terrible value compared to it's cousins. So I am not keen on going, and I want to try to encourage others to try the other resorts where they can. But if someone asks for dining advice, or how to go to the parks with babies and toddlers, or which is the best night time show when short on time, I will reply with positive gusto. What I love about LP is a fairly balanced and mature audience. It's not all praising or damnation, but a mix in between.
Originally Posted By dshyates I don't gripe all that much any more. Its mostly just bitter snarky drive-by jokes. And I don't go to WDW anymore. I find I bitch less if I don't go. I have been twice since 1995. The last time in 2006.
Originally Posted By itsme So what are the excuses for Ouimet not doing so well with Starwod yet Disney has not gone into the toilet since he has not been with them?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Quick question just out of curiosity, How many of the people here that are down on what a trip to the Orlando parks brings to them have kids{and do they go to the parks with you}, a biz degree or run a large company that deals with the public at large? < I like Davewasbaloo have post graduate qualificatons - are in upper middle management for a major multi national firm with revenues of almost $90B. I deal with the public all the time... I have 2 children ( ages 14 and 23 ) -(yes I still consider my 23 my kid for travel - heckI still consider myself a kid) -
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I get torn on how much negativity should be in posts when I read Danny's post - and I know myself ,I can get down pretty quickly on some things. I too try and pick my spots , but a part of me says we also have to be honest. I look back and think about how many people convinced themselves GM and Ford built better cars than the rest of the world because they also were part of our culture. They produced crap for decades before people were honest with them. By the time they got serious about quality again, most people had moved on and didn't take them seriously anyway. Today they are fighting for their proverial lives - regardless of what they are producing. I would never want to see that happen to Disney.... therefore I will always try not to be a negative Nelly just to be so - but I also want to make sure I am honest. I think we all agree we really love the place- and would like nothing better than to see the dedication to quality they set the standard for return in places where it needs to and stay in the places it has stayed.
Originally Posted By danyoung dad, I've been saying all along that I'm not against negativity per se - sometimes it's necessary and appropriate. My problem comes in when a majority of a poster's input is negative, to where someone can't say something as simple as "I'm looking forward to staying at {insert Disney hotel here}" without getting a diatribe on the poor quality of Disney hotels. As much as some people want to stand up for their right to call things as they see them, I'm standing up and saying that sometimes it all gets to be too much.
Originally Posted By itsme There is a difference between honesty and negativity, I don't think some people are capable of separating the two. Also to often they will let personal circumstances affect their decision between the two.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Of course everyone has the right to say what they want to say. But there are times when it gets to be altogether too much of the same thing.>> So true, Danny. So true. I'm so tired of hearing how I (along with every other American) should pay a trillion dollars to bail out Wall Street for being irreponsible while people who bought homes above their means should get tossed on the Street. I am tired of seeing people who suggest how un-American this is suddenly get cut off on CNN and FOX. I am tired of the fact I felt freer in Godless, Communist China than I do here in the good, old USofA. And congrats to the Republicans in Congress for showing some testicular fortitude today and deciding that George may want us to become a Communist nation (just for Wall Street) but they still believe in sink or swim for the market. I just wish the market would drop a few thousand points. I'm so tired of the fat cats ... oh wait ... let's get back to the point of Danny's diatribe against me (if there was one!) ;-) <<And your arguments may be fresh to you, but to me it just seems to be more of the same. I don't really mean that to be as insulting as it sounds - it's just the way I'm perceiving what I'm reading. And '74 has been totally relentless in his WDW bashing since his recent re-emergence.>> Reemergence? I feel like I should be coming out of a cocoon now as a beautiful butterfly or a Disney Fairy. But I really think you're way off (as usual) when you say I've been constant bashing WDW since my return. First, let me state a few facts: I am pretty high on TWDC right now. Everything from ABC/ESPN to the great slate the Studios have for the next 2-3 years (and beyond) to taking the Disney Stores back to even the free tix being given away as part of Magical Celebrations. On the P&R front, I was wowed by the beauty of HKDL and the barely tapped potential of that resort. And DL/DCA didn't disappoint in the least in my recent visits. If anything, they seem to be improving. I love DCL's expansion and even DVC's expansion in California and Hawaii (Florida is another matter). And DLP has really started to show signs of growing again (and what is in Paris is amazing!) So even though I still feel that Jay Rasulo is a terrible fit for his position and that someone with a passion for the parks (a la Dick Nunis) needs to be heading them (memo to Bob Iger: I hear Matt Ouimet is available again), I just see a lot of upside. So, gee, what have we missed? Oh yeah, WDW. My home resort. The place that dreams comes true, magic lives and the Spirit bashes daily! (that last part was according to some crazy Texan with a flaming head) I haven't been to WDW in over five months, likely the longest I've gone between visits since the last Bush was in the White House. Part of that had to do with my work in China. Part of it had to do with my work in Los Angeles. Part of it had to do with the God-awful economy (I don't have a charity I can steal from to fund my theme park activities like others out there.) I am planning on visiting WDW this fall, but there's no real compelling pull at all. I will likely stay off-site at the J.W. Marriott or the World Center Marriott because they offer more bang for the buck. I will spend a lot of time at Universal and Horror Nights. I will visit Sea World and Aquatica. In other words, my trip will largely be an Orlando visit vs. a WDW one. Yes. I intend to visit all four Disney parks (especially EPCOT for Food and Wine) and the Studios (since I still haven't experienced the east coast version of TSMM). But the pull to WDW isn't what it once was. The biggest reason is simple: staleness. WDW isn't offering anything new or exciting for me to see, do or (what should be worrisome for the Mouse) spend money on. Even dining will be curtailed, I've seen the latest round of price increases ($41 for what a few years ago was a $25 filet at California Grill ... no hot food at Trail's End with a price drop of one whole dollar for what was $5.99 in 1996 and was $12.99 earlier this year ... $30 for a buffet dinner at the Biergarten that a decade ago was half that etc ...) I guess if you only visit WDW maybe you're more willing to accept things like that, I dunno. Ultimately, I'm doing what I've always said I'd do as a consumer: I'm cutting back on WDW because it is offering me less magic for my money. <<I've long enjoyed his contributions to this and other boards.>> Here's the backhanded compliment to set me up for ... <<But he's approaching that mythical status that Al Lutz had back when DCA opened, where he could not say anything without a bash in there somewhere ("Well, DL's Haunted Mansion has gotten some well deserved freshening up - too bad they can't do anything with that hole across the concourse"). At the risk of offending you and my longtime friend the Spirit, I guess I'm just not very receptive to the downer arguments right now.>> I haven't been bashing, Danny. Because I haven't really been in a WDW frame of mine. Like I said in another post, I've been to DL/DCA twice and HKDL once since I've last set foot in the resort I could go get in my car in now and be there before sunset (after a fillup for $60 despite oil dropping from $147 to $95 because Americans are getting screwed royally). I'm not any more down on WDW now than I was a year ago. It's still a terrific place and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a vacation (especially now with some of the last minute desperation moves to fill rooms at $59 for most nights over the next 2 1/2 months). But it's also being mismanaged and run strictly for the short term. The parks are largely stale and there isn't anything major coming in 2009 (sorry, American Idol doesn't count to me). I know I'll be back at DL/DCA before the end of the year and I am looking forward to that, even though I was there a week ago. I know I will be back at DLP in early 2009 and at TDL in spring of 2009 and those prospects excite the hell out of me. WDW? Eh ... I know I'll enjoy eating and drinking around the world at Epcot ... just drinking in the beauty and detail in a day at DAK ... trying TSMM at The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios ... maybe even trying a dinner at the Wave or checking out the new Nine Dragons if I can get in the mood for more Chinese food! ... but that overall sense of excitement just isn't in it for me right now. I need some new magic ... and not recycled marketing magic. Does that help, Danny?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Maybe the downer arguement would not be as prevelent if Disney did something about it!>> I'd dance in the streets if WDW management got an extreme makeover myself.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So what are the excuses for Ouimet not doing so well with Starwod yet Disney has not gone into the toilet since he has not been with them?>> And what's really your point? Do you know the specifics of why Ouimet is no longer employed by Starwood Hotels and Resorts? I don't. And I am not going to speculate other than execs lose jobs all the time (except at Disney), sometimes those job losses are justified and other times it is just corporate BS. I do know that Matt is the only P&R exec at the WDC who I never heard anyone utter a bad word about and that covers a lot of people. I also know Matt did a fantastic job in positions at Disney, especially heading the DCL and then DLR. Was DLR supposed to 'go in the toilet' when he left? <<There is a difference between honesty and negativity, I don't think some people are capable of separating the two.>> Really? So you can't be honest about something that is negative? <<Also to often they will let personal circumstances affect their decision between the two.>> Everyone lets their personal circumstances shape their opinions and world view, it's part of the human condition.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<<Reemergence? I feel like I should be coming out of a cocoon now as a beautiful butterfly or a Disney Fairy.>>> Good grief, I came home early today, 4PM for a quick lunch/supper before heading back to work for a finance committee meeting. Sitting here eating a salad that I went really heavy on with balsamic vinegar, read the above Spirit quote and had this horrible image of Spirit in a tu-tu. Darn near choked to death. Nasty.
Originally Posted By danyoung ME: I've long enjoyed his contributions to this and other boards. SPIRIT: Here's the backhanded compliment to set me up for ... Hey, there was nothing backhanded about that compliment. I meant it sincerely. But it's true that I haven't enjoyed your contributions of late, and this last one was a prime example. You're in a bad place these days, my friend, and you shouldn't be consorting with those of us with a glimmer of fairy dust in our eyes. I don't think you even realize the consistency of your tone over the past couple of weeks. It used to be fun to see what '74 has to say. Now it's all doom and gloom, outside of the positive notes you made in your last post. Someone suggested to me a few posts back to change the channel if I didn't like what I was reading. In response I'd say if all you have to say is negative, then maybe hanging out on a Disney parks forum isn't the best place for you right now. And please don't misunderstand me - I'm not asking you to leave (you'd tell me to take a flying hike anyway if I did!). I'm just saying that your anger at whatever seems to really be affecting you, and it might be hurting you hanging out with all of us pollyannas.
Originally Posted By ChiMike ^ That's the problem with your interpretation Dan, and in my writing if that is the only way you can interpret it, is that in regards to my first 3 posts on this thread it was nothing more than a "review" a critique. There was NO anger. If anything sadness. I think I even used the word. So it's one thing to say negativity. A whole different thing to use the word anger. And I have changed the channel, which I still propose you do if this stuff is too influential for you prior to a WDW trip. I came back to this "channel" to show how some feelings/views have changed and others haven't.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Good grief, I came home early today, 4PM for a quick lunch/supper before heading back to work for a finance committee meeting. Sitting here eating a salad that I went really heavy on with balsamic vinegar, read the above Spirit quote and had this horrible image of Spirit in a tu-tu. Darn near choked to death. Nasty.>> My dear, VBDAD is the dude who likes wearing tu-tus. Not your friendly neighborhood Spirit. And pour on that balsamic, I can't get enough on my salad.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 a picture of Vb dad in a tutu would make anyone choke.... would not be a pretty picture I can tell you
Originally Posted By ChiMike Spirit, BTW, I appreciate your general outlook on the big Disney picture that stretches far outside Orlando and I am glad to discuss this topic with someone who can far better articulate what I think than I can on my own.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<ME: I've long enjoyed his contributions to this and other boards. SPIRIT: Here's the backhanded compliment to set me up for ... Hey, there was nothing backhanded about that compliment. I meant it sincerely. But it's true that I haven't enjoyed your contributions of late, and this last one was a prime example.>> Well, I'm sorry for that. But it would appear you seem to have totally ignored my HKDL thread where the main point was "I really loved the park" and you seem to have ignored all of the points in my above post, which seemed to be about 85% positive. It's really your choice whether you read or comment on what I say, positive or negative, agree or disagree. It seems like you are focused on negative comments only. <<You're in a bad place these days, my friend, and you shouldn't be consorting with those of us with a glimmer of fairy dust in our eyes.>> Uhm ... Danny, I am actually in a better place now than I have been in years. Really! I had the summer of a lifetime and I got paid (well) for it. I followed that up with two weeks in California where I conducted business, went to the Emmys and some amazing parties and lost about 10 pounds by hiking in Sequoia. And I'm planning a trip to TDL (finally!) as well as a getaway to Orlando. Am I negative about the disaster that is our country right now, yeah. I think that's a very healthy 'tude instead of the apathy and resignment I see in most folks. But beyond that, I'm doing quite well and am quite happy as I am branching out professionally on an international stage with some intriguing projects and personally by finally dropping some weight and making some wonderful new real world friendships. That's probably more information than I should put out or more than you (or anyone here) needs to know. But, you shouldn't presume to psychoanalyze someone based upon a few posts on a Disney fan site. <<I don't think you even realize the consistency of your tone over the past couple of weeks. It used to be fun to see what '74 has to say. Now it's all doom and gloom, outside of the positive notes you made in your last post.>> No. It hasn't all been gloom and doom. And you aren't really being very fair and open-minded when you just brush aside all the positive things I wrote with a single sentence. <<Someone suggested to me a few posts back to change the channel if I didn't like what I was reading.>> Good advice. <<In response I'd say if all you have to say is negative, then maybe hanging out on a Disney parks forum isn't the best place for you right now. And please don't misunderstand me - I'm not asking you to leave (you'd tell me to take a flying hike anyway if I did!). I'm just saying that your anger at whatever seems to really be affecting you, and it might be hurting you hanging out with all of us pollyannas.>> I said my piece above. I have no intention of turning into the Happy Disney Fairy! (besides, there are plenty of them anyway!)
