Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, BTW, I appreciate your general outlook on the big Disney picture that stretches far outside Orlando and I am glad to discuss this topic with someone who can far better articulate what I think than I can on my own.>> Thanks. Oh, and check your email. Sent you a message over the weekend (used the addy you gave me in April, so I don't know if it is still accurate ... for obvious reasons, I don't want to put mine in a public forum.)
Originally Posted By ChiMike nope it isn't. When ever I post my Email I usually get many insulting emails sent my way and most of them have an Orlando or SoCal ip in the header. I would like to get a message off to you too, Try this one: AmosPomfritt@gmail.com Look forward to this past msg.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Gotta disagree with Dan here, the new Spirit isn't anything like the one of 6-8 months ago. Much easier to read and believe in.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris I don't get Dan's new attitude. I clearly remember him telling a certain former nasty poster the lay of the land in Disney Parks World and wearing the brunt of that former awful person's venom. I remember one of the attacks against danyoung being SO venomous(that former poster was a real charmer :rolls eyes: )that I felt compelled to write to Dan to cheer him up. Unfortunately I could not get access to his email at the time. My point stands now however that Dan seems to have swung the other way - as soon as somebody else wants to vent a bit about things going wrong, he suddenly starts channelling the spirit of He Who Must Not Be Named.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Dan seems to have swung the other way - as soon as somebody else wants to vent a bit about things going wrong, he suddenly starts channelling the spirit of He Who Must Not Be Named.< Thanks for the kind thoughts, Bob - I didn't even know you were reaching out, and I really appreciate the thought. I really am all for free expression of opinions, both positive and negative. I only get a little riled up when someone seems to be going overly negative. >So it's one thing to say negativity. A whole different thing to use the word anger.< I don't think I was using the a word directed at you, Mike. If I was, then I apologize. >Danny, I am actually in a better place now than I have been in years. Really! :-< I'm simcerely happy to read that, my friend. >But it would appear you seem to have totally ignored my HKDL thread...< True, I didn't read the HKDL thread, and am glad you enjoyed it. I tend to focus on threads that have to do with whatever park I have coming up. Right now it's WDW. Nearing Christmas I'm sure I'll drift towards DL threads. >No. It hasn't all been gloom and doom. And you aren't really being very fair and open-minded when you just brush aside all the positive things I wrote with a single sentence.< You're correct in this - I have been focusing on things you've said about WDW. And I don't think I read much if anything positive about that park. And of course that's how you feel, and you're welcome to it. I on the other hand am giddy as a schoolgirl looking forward to my extended visit. I'll be working at a convention in Orlando the first week, and hopefully will be able to split away and hit the parks for a few hours from time to time. At the end of the convention I'm staying in town for another week and totally vacationing. I'm both looking forward to the work and to the reward! Anyway, Spirit oh Spirit, as you said, "I've said my piece". Always interesting sparring with you, amigo.
Originally Posted By itsme <<So what are the excuses for Ouimet not doing so well with Starwod yet Disney has not gone into the toilet since he has not been with them?>> >>And what's really your point?>> Some seemed to offer up the "excuses" why he is no longer with Disney, since people seem to know everything about him figured some would know his current deal. >>Do you know the specifics of why Ouimet is no longer employed by Starwood Hotels and Resorts?>> Maybe the Itsme does, but best not to give out much as it may lead people to who am he may be. But since he seems to be a Disney hero it would be bad to say Starwoods performance has been weak at best. >>I don't. And I am not going to speculate other than execs lose jobs all the time (except at Disney), sometimes those job losses are justified and other times it is just corporate BS.>> Doesn't seem to stop you with stuff about Disney. >>I do know that Matt is the only P&R exec at the WDC who I never heard anyone utter a bad word about and that covers a lot of people.>> So really your speculating here right? >>I also know Matt did a fantastic job in positions at Disney, especially heading the DCL and then DLR. Was DLR supposed to 'go in the toilet' when he left?>> Well if Disney is filled with bad management types and people with no vision how could things not change downward if someone like Ouimet was so badly needed? <<There is a difference between honesty and negativity, I don't think some people are capable of separating the two.>> >>Really? So you can't be honest about something that is negative?>> <<Also to often they will let personal circumstances affect their decision between the two.>> >>Everyone lets their personal circumstances shape their opinions and world view, it's part of the human condition.>> Yep and that's exactly what's wrong with it and why some people cant/don't separate honesty from negativity. Not a shot at you personally just to use you as an example, a lot of your posts seem to include something about the bad economy, the President , his policy etc. If things like this bother someone so much that they need to mention them in the context that i have seen here then that person is unhappy due to other circumstances in life and this can and will affect their judgement on other aspects of life and they will now carry a negative attitude towards other things that may not deserve it. A negative about certain things in life person can not be honest about their feelings towards everything.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Hey Spirit, any chance I could email you?>> If you give me your email, I'll send you a note in return. I won't put my email out here for what should be very obvious reasons. If you don't wish to do that, you can PM me on Micechat.com where I spend very little time these days as WDW1974.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo At least on this site we can speak relatively freely. On a Paris site I frequent, an American has recently made his 1st trip to DLP and states he can never enjoy the MK properly again. I joined in agreement, and someone asked me to state why. So I gave precisely a dozen reasons and gave evidence of preferences for DL/DLP and why. A moderator (a Brit going to WDW for 3 weeks next summer for the first time), simply deleted the conversation with no explanation. when I questioned why, I was told not to contradict or question the moderators. I then posted a good bye (clearly a waste of my time, but sadly a guidebook refs that site, so it gets the most action for DLP issues). My goodbye was deleted within 2 minutes. Props to the admin of LP for at least allowing debate. Needless to say this is my cyber home for good reason, but I wish we had more DLP fans on here!!!!! What chaps my hide is all the people on that site will never get a balanced or variance of views with that behaviour. Once again LP is my favorite site because we are allowed to debate without threads being closed because there is already a similar one, or things being deleted because they are off topic or negative. Thanks Doobie and admin folks. Back on topic - Dan, I do not understand why you metaphorically thump anyone who speaks out against what Disney is doing. I understand you enjoy your time there (as do we all), but do you enjoy it as much as you used to?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<True, I didn't read the HKDL thread, and am glad you enjoyed it. I tend to focus on threads that have to do with whatever park I have coming up. Right now it's WDW. Nearing Christmas I'm sure I'll drift towards DL threads.>> You know what? That's fair enough and understandable. Who has the time to go through every board or every thread, right? But just understand that if you only choose to read a chapter or two, you can't say you understand the entire book. >No. It hasn't all been gloom and doom. And you aren't really being very fair and open-minded when you just brush aside all the positive things I wrote with a single sentence.< <<You're correct in this - I have been focusing on things you've said about WDW. And I don't think I read much if anything positive about that park. And of course that's how you feel, and you're welcome to it.>> Is this where I type for 6,965th time on LP.com that I love WDW ... that I enjoy my time there ... that my only goal is for it to live up to its own reputation? <<I on the other hand am giddy as a schoolgirl looking forward to my extended visit.>> I always picture you as a giddy schoolgirl. <<I'll be working at a convention in Orlando the first week, and hopefully will be able to split away and hit the parks for a few hours from time to time. At the end of the convention I'm staying in town for another week and totally vacationing. I'm both looking forward to the work and to the reward!>> Great. Have a wonderful time there. If you read above you'd note that I am planning on a visit soon myself. <<Anyway, Spirit oh Spirit, as you said, "I've said my piece". Always interesting sparring with you, amigo.>> You haven't really sparred. You tossed a few opinions out on my opinions. No real debate/discussion.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>And what's really your point?>> <<Some seemed to offer up the "excuses" why he is no longer with Disney, since people seem to know everything about him figured some would know his current deal.>> Some here who are close to certain people in the company such as Jay Rasulo might have an interest in spinning Matt in a less than glowing light. I recall seeing a thread on him leaving Starwood on the business board in which details of his contract while with Disney were placed out in public, which I don't personally think is very cool or professional especially for someone who works for the Mouse when he isn't moonlighting as a fan here. I, for one, never claimed to know everything about Matt. But I do like him personally and respect him a great deal professionally. And, yeah, I'd love to see him in Jay's office. >>Do you know the specifics of why Ouimet is no longer employed by Starwood Hotels and Resorts?>> <<Maybe the Itsme does, but best not to give out much as it may lead people to who am he may be.>> It seems that the Itsme writes sentences that make much sense they don't. <<But since he seems to be a Disney hero it would be bad to say Starwoods performance has been weak at best.>> Matt wasn't the head of Starwood, was he? The world economy isn't doing very well right now, is it? Travel is suffering with airline price increases and gas still averaging $3.75 a gallon. It would make sense that Starwood's results are less than glowing. >>I don't. And I am not going to speculate other than execs lose jobs all the time (except at Disney), sometimes those job losses are justified and other times it is just corporate BS.>> <<Doesn't seem to stop you with stuff about Disney. >> No, it doesn't. But I'm usually not speculating about a situation I know nothing about and an individual I greatly respect. >>I do know that Matt is the only P&R exec at the WDC who I never heard anyone utter a bad word about and that covers a lot of people.>> <<So really your speculating here right?>> No. I'm stating a fact. I've heard more people take shots at Walt than I have take shots Matt (and no, I'm not comparing the two, I'm again stating a fact.) >>I also know Matt did a fantastic job in positions at Disney, especially heading the DCL and then DLR. Was DLR supposed to 'go in the toilet' when he left?>> <<Well if Disney is filled with bad management types and people with no vision how could things not change downward if someone like Ouimet was so badly needed? >> So what do you do for Disney, Itsme? But to answer your question, Greg Emmer and a team of quality managers remained after Matt left. Disneyland had also been allowed to deteriorate so badly under Paul and Cynthia that Bob Iger wasn't going to allow that to happen on his watch ... well, at least so long as John Lasseter was there watching as well. Michael O'Grattan (a WDW exec now in Emmer's position as I am sure you know) hasn't been there long enough to truly judge his performance and Ed Grier ... well, he could almost be the Spirit since you never see him. <<There is a difference between honesty and negativity, I don't think some people are capable of separating the two.>> >>Really? So you can't be honest about something that is negative?>> <<Also to often they will let personal circumstances affect their decision between the two.>> >>Everyone lets their personal circumstances shape their opinions and world view, it's part of the human condition.>> <<Yep and that's exactly what's wrong with it and why some people cant/don't separate honesty from negativity.>> No, all it means is we all have bias. But it doesn't mean we can't be objective, at least some of us. Being a truly fair-minded spirit allows you do acknowledge your bias or preconceived notions and yet still make a fair judgment despite them. << A negative about certain things in life person can not be honest about their feelings towards everything.>> Complete BS. That would mean no one who has negativity about anything could ever be honest about anything else ... that's hooey to put it nicely. ... In other words, to use me and your example, you can think the Prez is a buffoon but that doesn't mean I can't tell if the portions at the EPCOT Food and Wine Fest have shrunk or the prices have gone up (that's just an example as I have no idea whether that's true) or whether or not I think WDW is being run in the best interest of the guests, fans, cast and stockholders.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 <<The world economy isn't doing very well right now, is it? Travel is suffering with airline price increases and gas still averaging $3.75 a gallon. It would make sense that Starwood's results are less than glowing.>> I think we may be entering very tough times for the travel industry no matter how rosy Disney's projections are. Don't tell me that this latest celebration is especially targeted at locals in Florida and California to get them out to the parks by offering a free ticket for at least one person in their party. As far as the rest of the industry goes it doesn't look too good. Westgate resorts is laying off hundreds of workers due to the credit crunch. Many people have no more credit to charge up to vacation due high gas, food, energy, health insurance, job loss. I think things are bad now but I think we have not seen the worse of it yet.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Don't know where you guys buy your gas, but I paid $3.36 a gallon today. Is it cheaper in NE for the leaf peepers who are heading here?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Don't know where you guys buy your gas, but I paid $3.36 a gallon today. Is it cheaper in NE for the leaf peepers who are heading here? << That's cheaper than what we are paying here with all those refineries, oil wells, and off shore rigs all around us. We are definetly taking a hosing from the oil companys right now. I always wanted to go to New England, and do a little leaf peeping myself.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Some here who are close to certain people in the company such as Jay Rasulo might have an interest in spinning Matt in a less than glowing light. I recall seeing a thread on him leaving Starwood on the business board in which details of his contract while with Disney were placed out in public, which I don't personally think is very cool or professional especially for someone who works for the Mouse when he isn't moonlighting as a fan here.>> While you are sniping at me without mentioning my name let me set the record straight: 1) I made no comment about Matt's contract with Disney. I was not aware of the T&Cs and as he was not ExCom the details were not public. 2) I made comments about Matt's departure from Starwood. All of the facts that I presented would be available from the SEC filings - they are all in the public domain as he was an ExCom member at Starwood. I haven't read the 8-Ks myself but knock yourself out if you want to do so. I guarantee you that there is no insider knowledge there. Personally I didn't care for the political games that Matt played both publicly and privately whilst at Disney. It is another example of the direct correlation between fan popularity and internal perception. I always found Matt to be generous and polite when presented externally as an executive of WDP&R. Internally was a different matter and I know I'm not alone in that opinion.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Michael O'Grattan (a WDW exec now in Emmer's position as I am sure you know) hasn't been there long enough to truly judge his performance and Ed Grier ... well, he could almost be the Spirit since you never see him.>> You obviously don't spend much time at DLR. Ed is always in the parks - he may not take the walks that Matt (or even Paul) enjoyed but he is there often and not just for public events. It isn't the President's role to be seen by cast members and the public. That is an Ops role as held by Michael O'Grattan. Ed is there as the business guy for the entire resort - it is about growing the overall footprint of DLR in Anaheim.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Personally I didn't care for the political games that Matt played both publicly and privately whilst at Disney. It is another example of the direct correlation between fan popularity and internal perception. I always found Matt to be generous and polite when presented externally as an executive of WDP&R. Internally was a different matter and I know I'm not alone in that opinion.>> Shocking. Really ... not (hey, Borat still thinks that's cool). People who work for TWDC and are liked/loved/admired by the lowly commoners aren't generally liked internally according to you. Gee, really how elitist. How contemptful of the visitors. They obviously are too stupid to know when they're being snowed by a smiling Disney face. But it's the ones that people universally don't like, you know like Jay ... those are the real good guys. I think on that count Phil Holmes must be the best exec WDW has ever had. As to playing politics, I have to assume you didn't write that with a straight face considering some of the folks you praise up and down are some of the worst that TWDC has.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You obviously don't spend much time at DLR.>> I spent more time there than any Disney resort these days (oh and not just using my AP, but with CMs getting me in as I don't want Disney tracking my every move). <<Ed is always in the parks - he may not take the walks that Matt (or even Paul) enjoyed but he is there often and not just for public events.>> I've never layed eyes on the man. Frontline CMs I know have said the same, a few have seen him 'once or twice.' <<It isn't the President's role to be seen by cast members and the public. That is an Ops role as held by Michael O'Grattan. Ed is there as the business guy for the entire resort - it is about growing the overall footprint of DLR in Anaheim.>> I actually thought the DLR Prez's role was to make Jay Rasulo happy.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Don't know where you guys buy your gas, but I paid $3.36 a gallon today. Is it cheaper in NE for the leaf peepers who are heading here?>> In SoFla, it is $3.75 ... I paid about $3.50 in the OC (the real one) last week. Of course, the dirty little secret is the actual price should be about $2.25 a gallon but, hey, ExxonMobil needs $12 billion quarterly profits. Free market rocks!
Originally Posted By ChiMike Alright, well here we go. Trying to stay out of these conversations but some provoking comments are coming together to form quite the theme and I guess I am at a point where I'll take bait. ITSME>>Quick question just out of curiosity, How many of the people here that are down on what a trip to the Orlando parks brings to them have kids{and do they go to the parks with you}, a biz degree or run a large company that deals with the public at large? << I am certainly not going to get into my background on here; I never have since I joined in 2001... And I am certainly not going to do so because itsme is trying to prove what I believe to be a backwards point. I will say, say more than itsme has disclosed about his own background, that long time members of lp.com have seen me mention numerous times in the past that I have children, have visited the parks with my and others children hundreds of times, have been involved heavily in the corporate and financial community of Chicago, and most importantly, have a pretty strong reputation for calling it straight, even stating when my own preferences are in the minority or in conflict with sound business. Not only do I visit the parks to this day with children, but they all, almost unanimously, declare the Disneyland Resort as a better choice to fulfill their own preferences. And that's the beauty of children; they are brutally honest in their tastes. Especially when a 7 year old girl (first viewing for her) has to plead with me to walk out of MILF half-way through the show. So, itsme why do you ask such a loaded, presumptuous question anyway?? ITSME>>Just curiosity more then anything, Though I will admit part is that it does fascinate me that the adults without children {which i was one who also went a lot before my wife and I had kids} that go to a family oriented resort that Imo is one that gears itself more towards parents with children are the ones who usually seem to complain the most about changes that are made or not made that they feel would make the place better to them. Also to see if those same people have any first hand knowledge of business and the challenges of what it may take to keep people coming back to a business, especially when times make people tight as far as money spending on pleasures like a family vacation to a Disney area resort.<< Well there goes your carefully crafted hypothesis on why I am "down on what a trip to the Orlando parks give". Please excuse me if I form an opinion of your intentions based on your presented stereotype. Which, imo, should offend any reader who doesn't have children or does not own/run a business. >>...After looking around the last few weeks there seems to be a larger then usual amount of posts this time from people that are un-happy with Disney and the direction they are taking with the parks.<< And of course it is THEIR problem. Something dysfunctional in their background, right? Because if you and your kids have a good time, well that's the gold standard, right? Right? Hells-bells, if we actually look at a cross-section of guests from varying backgrounds & experience levels and suggest that maybe Disney is upsetting more loyal guests than they did, say, 20 years ago. >>I'm not a Disney apologist who thinks that everything is always great no matter what they do but I'm just curious to see a little background on some of the people that are jumping on them for something like this announcement of next years theme as if they themselves already know its a bad business decision and there were other things that they needed to do at this time.<< First, never said it was a bad business decision. As far as those go, I think the Disney company is quite vindicated by their short-term decisions since the stock collapse of 2001 and 2002. I stated that I think these marketing investments net close to nothing in the long term and there are better alternatives. That might not be Disney's objective, though. It certainly wasn't in 2004. Perhaps now it is. Again, that doesn't mean I know their intended objective and that I think their approach will FAIL. Second, it would be great, and this is completely a polite request mind you, that you actually address the points made in posts rather than launch a critique on the messenger - trying to engage in an elementary psychoanalysis based on simple-minded assumptions. >>So what are the excuses for Ouimet not doing so well with Starwod yet Disney has not gone into the toilet since he has not been with them?<< You are smart enough to see what is occurring in this country right? Do I really need to say more? But I will ... On a macro level that might have effected Matt or not - - - Starwood is not Disney. Doesn't have that kind of built-up Goodwill. In fact, if it wasn't for that built-up Goodwill resulting from the GOOD business decisions executed pre-Rasulo, Jay might not have much to Magically Market or Celebrate in today's climate. Right along with Starwood and other hotel companies. My experts tell me that it is the mid-range hotels that will survive this. The Radissons of the world. Outside of Disney or Las Vegas, the high-end and low-end operations are what will be taking the beatings. Ask any GM in D.C. about the cutbacks in business accounts and thus length of stays for their business guests. Anyways, I digress... I have firmly believed since Michael Eisner joined Disney that it doesn't take a PhD to operate the Parks Division. It's a pretty sweet gig that has been exploited as of late. It's almost the gift that keeps giving, the Golden Goose to use a relevant and timely analogy. Look what happened to retail guru Paul Pressler when he went to The Gap. Same outcome. These guys don't know how easy they have it running an operation that is loved across the world. >>There is a difference between honesty and negativity, I don't think some people are capable of separating the two. Also to often they will let personal circumstances affect their decision between the two.<< Maybe you are self-analyzing, I don't know... If I may say so, respectfully and courteously, I feel your ->comments<- are slightly arrogant and a little narrow-minded. It's this whole attack the personality of the messenger thing again; rather than contribute your own thoughts directly to the message. Share your own opinion on why the poster is right or wrong. Nope, easier to assume an unfounded stereotype than create a substantive response to an opinion that might threaten your own point of view. Now, I hope we all can get back to an in-depth discussion of what we all love. A discussion about these parks, this company, and this recent marketing initiative.
