Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom And I admit, I could be wrong. However, after my observations two weeks ago while visiting WDW. Perhaps the most startling thing to me was the Disney Meal Plan, and now the absolute NEED to make meal resevations months out. It became very obvious that Disney wants to be able to anticipate staffing demands months out. Disney spend so much money making vacation resevations/ planning for the "oneses, twoses". It would make so much more sence from a resevationist stand point to be dealing with only one person and booking rooms for hundreds even thousands of guests. There is something a little more sinister than your run of the mill Disney family oriented hotel/ resort at hand here. I'm thinking Vegas.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <You a offer an EconoLodge with mouse ears and even fewer amenities than a value resort (perhaps just bus services) and charge $10-20 less per night than the Value resorts. It wouldn't be a resort, just a place to sleep at night that's just a smidgen more convenient than staying off property. < Is $49 / night vs $59/ night on some of the deals really going to make the difference between a Disney trip or not ? Another $40 - $50 over the 4 -5 day average trip ? As it is now the value resorts ( adding bus transportation and ability to use EMH ) -is comparable to Motel 6 no ?
Originally Posted By basas The value resorts are pretty...basic- I'll agree. But then why do some guests still stay at Days Inn or any other chain hotel on US-192 and shuttle into WDW? I'm really just trying to throw things out here...not really sure of any of it...but I don't know- maybe they want to have some very budget hotels mixed it with some shops and more 'generic' restaurants (maybe even non-Disney ones) that guests can walk too and do everything they can do on 192 or I-drive but at the same time be staying ‘in Disney’? The whole thing sounds a little strange in my book…
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Is $49 / night vs $59/ night on some of the deals really going to make the difference between a Disney trip or not ?<< I would think so, otherwise those cheapo off property motels would all be empty. >>As it is now the value resorts ( adding bus transportation and ability to use EMH ) -is comparable to Motel 6 no ?<< The rooms are fairly spartan and small. But the value resorts have amenities that a cheapo lodge doesn't offer: big pools, food court, video arcade, bar, theming, etc.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom If it wasn't for the el cheapo hotels some familys would never be able to enjoy Walt Disney World. Some families can not afford to stay on property. Also the time share market is huge in Orlando. Lots of people either own time shares or swap time shares in the area. Personaly I think Disney has enough rooms. I think they need more sitdown restaurants. I really don't think they need another shopping area. The shopping is pretty much generic at Disney at this point anyway. You can find the same stores in DTD as well as in each park.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<At this point I have to honestly say I don't know which demographic Disney is going for. I'm not so certain they are going for the American Express Black Card crowd since they are still going to Lake Como in Italy. I'm not sure how Disney is going to "lure" that demographic to WDW. That demographic doesn't like being "shoulder to shoulder" with others in the parks. They have the money and they don't have to put up with the crowds.>> Tom, I spent part of last summer at Lake Como and I 'only' have an AmEx Platinum Card ... does that make me PWT? ;-) <<I'm not so certain that Disney is shooting for the "Wal-Mart" crowd. If they were then why aren't they ( pardon the anology ) expanding the campground? Seems to me there are a lot of people who own campers and are willing to pay the $35 a night for a hook up rather than a Value resort room.>> The rumors going around, and that's all they are at this point, is that Disney is indeed going after the WalMart crowd that thinks $100 a night is about twice what they should pay ... at most ... the folks who stay closer to DAK than many on-site people ... just a bit away on 192 west. All I can say is if this is true, WDW will have truly fallen as far as possible. The gangs (or just trashy guests) are already painting grafitti on the walls and stairwells at the All Stars ... how low does Disney want to go in an unquenchable thirst to make every Central Florida visitor a 'guest' of the Mouse? Scary.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Personaly I think Disney has enough rooms. I think they need more sitdown restaurants. I really don't think they need another shopping area. The shopping is pretty much generic at Disney at this point anyway. You can find the same stores in DTD as well as in each park.>> Hey Tom, you do realize your stealing my lines, right?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>The rumors going around, and that's all they are at this point, is that Disney is indeed going after the WalMart crowd<< FWIW, they are the fastest growing demographic. No doubt Disney analysts look longingly at all those potential customers who currently stay off property. They will have to be careful on how they address that market. The hotels will need to be a sufficent step down from the value resorts to give the current value resort demographic a reason to continue staying there, but offer the proper value proposition to entice the Super 8 crowd to move on property (and perhaps pay a modest premium over a Super 8/Econolodge.)
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> how low does Disney want to go in an unquenchable thirst to make every Central Florida visitor a 'guest' of the Mouse<< In a way those people already are guests of the mouse (in that the visit the thee parks). I suspect that Disney would prefer that they rent a cheap room on property as opposed to off property. In the process they might attract new visitors, but I think that their initial target is the "low hanging fruit" being guests on a budget who currently stay off proprty.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Maybe I am being a snob. If people are on that tight of a budget, they'll still be bringing their own food and drink in, as well as not buying the souvenirs. The cost of development and maintenance will not be worth it because DVCers and Deluxe patrons may stop going if WDW starts to get a 6 Flag feel. I'm sorry, but part of the fun of Disney is to immerse one's self in fantasy. But having the Walmart crowd rolling up en mass and impacting even further on the experience will greatly take away from the fun of WDW. I know this sounds aweful, but I wish Disney still excelled to be the ultimate vacation experience (Pop Warner I think was a taste of what could be). At least they should finish Pop first. And Tom - I fully agree with your views on restaurants and the lousy shopping experience. However, I don't know if WDW would continue to go after the convention crowd. The Contemporary, Swan and Dolphin, and Coronado Springs cover these off nicely. I do not know if further demand is there.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn If they could just make a nice fancy entrance that comes off the new west road, that would be enough. I bet the day is not far when Disney "parking" toll gates are inserted to each road entrance onto the property.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I 'only' have an AmEx Platinum Card ... does that make me PWT? ;-)>> Sadly Spirit, No the American Express Black Card holders easily spend 200K a year on charges to their Am Ex. There are only 100-200 people worldwide that do that. But at least you know where to vacation, right. <smile> Dave for the record I didn't say "lousy" shopping experience. I had a great time shopping in DTD as well as in the Parks. I just think after a while the stores get pretty generic. Generic is the key word here. I still don't think Disney is going after the Wal-mart crowd. I think the proposed property is going to be for Conventions. Disney can handle small conventions. I just can't see them handling large conventions. Oh course the bigger question is with all these hotels on property is full occupancy of these hotels "sustainable"? I have to say no. I don't think it is. The only thing on property cheaper than a $75 dollar a night room at the Values is going to be a camping site at Ft Wilderness at $35 a night. I agree with Dave there is no way the cost, expense of building cheap rooms is going to be cost effective to justify construction at room rates of $50 a night. As far as I'm concerned the "shell shock" of the resort charges are the County as well as State taxes one has to pay for a hotel room added on. Something Disney has NO control over. For my stay at DAK this upcoming January the room rates are $159 per night. But add in taxes and charges it comes up to $198 a night. Thats a LOT of taxes. Remind me of the taxes in Quebec, Canada.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom mrkthompsn, I'm with you. This is going to be a 2nd DTD. One for the Westside of the property. DTD is soooo congested. I'm sure everyone who has to travel the roads around Lake Buena Vista complain constantly. What do they have, three turning lanes on to Lake Buena Vista Drive?
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl (I'm sorry, but part of the fun of Disney is to immerse one's self in fantasy. But having the Walmart crowd rolling up en mass and impacting even further on the experience will greatly take away from the fun of WDW.) Davewasbaloo, I am disappointed by this remark. I do not consider myself or my family part of the "walmart crowd", but feel that everyone should be able to enjoy Disney. Not all families are as priviledged as maybe your family or mine...but they deserve to enjoy WDW as well
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "Dave for the record I didn't say "lousy" shopping experience. I had a great time shopping in DTD as well as in the Parks." No - sorry, I was telegraphing my thoughts. I was really disappointed with the repeat merchandise everywhere. And as much as I love PotC - does the same merchandise have to be in 46 of the 49 shops I walk into?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "(I'm sorry, but part of the fun of Disney is to immerse one's self in fantasy. But having the Walmart crowd rolling up en mass and impacting even further on the experience will greatly take away from the fun of WDW.) Davewasbaloo, I am disappointed by this remark. I do not consider myself or my family part of the "walmart crowd", but feel that everyone should be able to enjoy Disney. Not all families are as priviledged as maybe your family or mine...but they deserve to enjoy WDW as well" Sorry if I offended Fenway girl, that was not the intention. It's just that I am seeing a great lack of respect for the resort since the values have opened up and to me, Disney was THE luxury family vacation. The Deluxes were special, not just highly themed motels. While the parks are open for all that purchase their tickets, I really feel the magic is leaving the resorts, and I find the current trends of dining plans and value resorts are leading to that. Now if people want to camp or stay at a Motel 6 and bring bags of cheerios into the park as a snack, with their leftover buffet breakfast for lunch, that's their perogative. However, I do not want Disney to build a motel 6 to compete. I'd rather they focus on the experience market instead of dumbing down the product. And it's this sort of behaviour which has been a major problem for Disneyland Paris. The parks are open for all. But I found myself wondering if the Gaylord or Ritz near WDW would offer a better experience. Disney should not be chasing away this market too. I will not fly 5000 miles to experience a Six Flags/Motel 6 experience. I will however save and travel for 23 hours for a once in a lifetime extravaganza. I understand what it is to be hard up (we lost our house when I was a kid and went almost 8 years without a park trip - in fact I worked 40 hours a week as a school kid illegally to save up to be able to go to the opening of Disneyland Paris). But I would rather save another couple of years for an outstanding experience then go more often for a mediocre. That's me I suppose. For me, if the trend continues, I may just start going to Tokyo instead.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Again this is all speculation. We have no idea just what Disney plans to build. Personally I think its going to be a DTD Westside of Park experience.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I really hope you are right Tom, but I am concerned. It's too soon to pass judgement, but I await with caution. If it really were for the conference market, wouldn't the East Side make more sense as it is closer to the airport and further from the parks?
Originally Posted By FenwayGirl I understand how you feel about "lack of respect",but you cannot chalk all of that up to the so called "Walmart crowd". I think that society in general has lost a lot of respect for all things. Not sure if not letting in the less privileged will stop the lack of respect. I accept your apology, but it upsets me when people attach all negative things with the lower income population. I know people who have very little, who have more respect and compassion than most. Money does not make a man.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<The rumors going around, and that's all they are at this point, is that Disney is indeed going after the WalMart crowd that thinks $100 a night is about twice what they should pay ... at most ... the folks who stay closer to DAK than many on-site people ... just a bit away on 192 west.>> That's what I thought after reading Kevin Yee's article, and in my mind in order to differentiate it from the Value resorts, there would be no references to Disney at all. I am thinking they would just be regular motels with no Disney theming that Disney just happens to own and run. <<The hotels will need to be a sufficent step down from the value resorts to give the current value resort demographic a reason to continue staying there, but offer the proper value proposition to entice the Super 8 crowd to move on property>> I imagine the one bone they could throw these guests would be bus transportation to the parks. I also think Disney might move their Character Premiere and Warehouse locations to this area, or open another at the least.
