Originally Posted By vbdad55 <>>Is $49 / night vs $59/ night on some of the deals really going to make the difference between a Disney trip or not ?<< I would think so, otherwise those cheapo off property motels would all be empty. < my guess is more like some people do not check out the prices of Disney hotels because they 'assume' they are far too expensive...it is not the price difference.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <All I can say is if this is true, WDW will have truly fallen as far as possible. The gangs (or just trashy guests) are already painting grafitti on the walls and stairwells at the All Stars ... how low does Disney want to go in an unquenchable thirst to make every Central Florida visitor a 'guest' of the Mouse? Scary.< Do they really want the clientele of Six Flags ? If so, those parks are always for sale, just buy them. I stopped going to the ones here after more than one incident involving fights and or damage to cars...and the only time we attend is when a corporate function has the entire park...Maybe a few of the MBA's in the accounting department need to spend a Saturday night at a Six Flags...and then decide if that is the crowd they want for WDW. Better yet, go to a 'fright night' at one around Halloween...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I whole heartily agree, and your theory could prove true too. Either way, I just long for people to respect the parks. It seems to me that the lowering of quality has been in step with the free dining and Value Resort programmes, but I am also open to the idea that it is in step with the general degradation of society.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "<>>Is $49 / night vs $59/ night on some of the deals really going to make the difference between a Disney trip or not ?<< I would think so, otherwise those cheapo off property motels would all be empty. < my guess is more like some people do not check out the prices of Disney hotels because they 'assume' they are far too expensive...it is not the price difference." I so agree. People here in the UK say WDW is so expensive, but when you price up a Days Inn, Car Rental, Passes, Parking fees, and dining costs, it can easily cost the same if not more than staying at the All Stars, using DME and the dining plan.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But having the Walmart crowd rolling up en mass and impacting even further on the experience will greatly take away from the fun of WDW.<< But there are already there. They are just lodging off property.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I really can't see how building cheap rooms is going to draw lower income people into WDW. A single daily ticket price alone into one of the Disney parks costs more than a room at the Value resorts. Call me the doubting Thomas that I am. But, I don't buy it ( pun intended ). Oh and Dave no disrespect intended about the Disney shopping jab. Again I think the key word here is "generic". Its pretty bad when I show up at a Disney park with WDW Christmas Cards and the Cast Members are all asking me where I bought them since no shops in the parks are selling the Christmas Cards. I got them at the 28 Days of Christmas store in DTD. And I mean GENERIC. No Christmas themed post cards? No Halloween themed post cards? No holiday and I mean EVERY holiday themed post cards? All they had in any of the Disney stores were the same old ( and I mean SAME OLD ) post cards Disney has been selling for year. You know things are bad when I'm sending off WDW post cards to DisneyPete on the Isle of Man in the UK and he's saying its the same post card he got the previous year. Come on Disney, get some new Merchandise.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Come on Disney, get some new Merchandise.< To me , the merchandise at DL is far superior in quality as well as variety....they must have different purchasing departments.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Now if people want to camp or stay at a Motel 6 and bring bags of cheerios into the park as a snack, with their leftover buffet breakfast for lunch, that's their perogative. However, I do not want Disney to build a motel 6 to compete. I'd rather they focus on the experience market instead of dumbing down the product. And it's this sort of behaviour which has been a major problem for Disneyland Paris.<< I am sure the WDW management would much prefer to field new deluxe resorts, especially since the margins on those resorts are higher than what a vanilla motel would generate. But since they are not doing that I can only conclude that the luxury market is maxed out (at least for WDW). The fact that they are cannibalizing that market with the DVC product might even be an indication that they are afraid of losing it and are trying to lock those people into future visits with DVC.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<they must have different purchasing departments.>> I've always thought it was strange that DLR and WDW are run so differently from each other.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I really can't see how building cheap rooms is going to draw lower income people into WDW. A single daily ticket price alone into one of the Disney parks costs more than a room at the Value resorts. Call me the doubting Thomas that I am. But, I don't buy it ( pun intended ).<< You would be surprised at what what people will do to stretch a budget. I know people here in Colorado who drive all the way to Orlando (3 days each way) to save on airfare (they have large families). And they stay at a cheapo motel ($50 a night) where they are allowed more than 4 people per room. Its true that if you know how and have an AP that you can get a low rate at the value resorts. But if you jsut go onto Expedia there is a big difference. For instance, I just checked rates for late January. Value resorts are $82 a night. Off property hotels start at $32. That's about a $300 savings for a week's stay, and for some people that is a big deal.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I've always thought it was strange that DLR and WDW are run so differently from each other.<< They cater to different demographics
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Maybe I'm just wierd. If I have to worry about the difference of $300 I just would not go until I had that $300. A vacation worrying about money is not a vacation. I'd rather stay home and play with the kids, cook and bake if money is that tight.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I'm not speaking about who they cater to, I am talking about stuff like why are the AP media diffferent, some park policies are different, stuff like that.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Good point Russ. Why not give discounts on all hotel bookings, restaurants and shops? The policies are radically different.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Here in Atlanta we have a nationally syndicated radio Money Guru (sp). He's a multi-millionare. Anyway we took his radio crew to WDW. He always stays off property and then only at cheap hotels. During a live broadcast his radio crew spoke out. Most of his radio crew are young females. Someone was trying to break down the door into one of his crews room while she was sleeping ( and alone in room ). Another member of his crew said that there was a fist fight that broke out in the lobby of the hotel. All the crew said that they felt the hotel they had stayed at was unsafe. He appoligized deeply on live radio to his crew. Lets face it, not too many folks here live in the metro Orlando area. We are not professionals as to what hotels are safe or unsafe. I know that at least if I'm staying at a Disney hotel its going to be safe. I'm not going to be staying off property, go into the parks then come back to my room to find my stuff vandilized or stolen.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I disagree that Disney is going after the "Wal-Mart crowd". Everything they have done recently shows otherwise. They have built more DVC rooms in the past 5 years than any other type of room. They have developed just a small portion of the Pop Century rooms that they originally planned. And you can no longer say it is because of 9/11. WDW attendance has rebounded to pre-9/11 levels. They aren't looking to attract the Value Resort Guest. The Dining plan may be bringing more people into the top restaurants, but it is NOT bringing in the low end Disney visitor. The dining plan costs $37.77 for two meals and a snack. You could purchase two meals and a snack at a food court for $20. With the Dining Plan a person can eat at higher end restaurants than they could otherwise on $38 per day, but they are still spending considerably more than the less affluent visitor would spend at the food courts (or even less by eating off site). The ticket pricing is also aimed at bringing in the more affluent guest. You want a one day hopper? You will pay $119.28 for that. For a three day hopper you will pay $84.14 per day. For a five day hopper you will pay $53.46 per day. For a 10 day hopper you will pay $27.80 per day. Who is staying at WDW for a 5-10 day vacation? It isn't the "Wal-Mart crowd", I'll guarantee you that. In every product area that Disney offers (except shopping) they are clearing going after a NON Value Resort customer. The hotel rooms being developed, the Dining Plan and the new Ticket pricing all appeal to Middle Class/Upper Middle Class customers. I think Disney looked around and decided the lower end customers weren't spending as much per day as they wanted guests to spend. I think they got a bunch of bright folks around a table and discussed how they could start attracting a higher level guest without making it look like they were trying to attract a higher level guest. So they came up with dining and ticket pricing that would look like bargains, but they are bargains ONLY for people spending more on their vacations than what the less affluent would be likely to spend. Masterfully crafty if you ask me!!
Originally Posted By leemac <<<<they must have different purchasing departments.>> I've always thought it was strange that DLR and WDW are run so differently from each other. >> From a design POV the vast majority of the US (and HKDL too) park merch is designed by the Disney Design Group in Florida. However the merch managers at each resort have a fair amount of impact in the purchasing decisions (ie. like why do WDW guests still love tie-died tees?!?!).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Maybe I'm just wierd.<< You're not weird. You're just a different demographic.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ DL always has a much better selection of high end collectibles, and even the aulity of their items like T shirts seems to be higher...maybe it is just perception...but to me it appears to be true. I wish WDW would return a good selection of high end collectibles to their stores (that haven't been overrun by Pooh plush and princess dolls ) - and still offered items like the nice leather jackets I own from Tomorrowland ( suede and embroidery) - and other limited runs. I think the Olszewski run when it hits WDW full stride ( ala DL's Main Street & Buildings) - will be a step in the right direction - Cindy's Castle was wonderful.
